[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Angry Guy of DE]

Just the straps...*considers the situation*
...
But she'll lose any upper body invincibility with just straps!  I'm thinking her with a full suit jacket with tie and tosses it off Yakuza style with either the button shirt or a vest underneath...With her win pose still having her gut punch Kagura as he runs to get a touch.
 

[Teutonicknight]

Plus she wears a tie better than Hazama. :P

...well, she wears anything better than anyone.

[OmniSScythe]

Guys, I don't mind going a bit off topic once a while but do try to keep it at least half-gameplay related.

[OmnixTSC]

Guys, I don't mind going a bit off topic once a while but do try to keep it at least half-gameplay related.

 

Agreed. We should try to at least keep the gameplay discussion as the focus (though I aided in all of this off-topic nonsense )

 

So, is there a comprehensive list of optimal combos for all of our starters? I'm curious, as I'd just write up my own list with all that I know and what I've seen if there isn't already one (after I finish the Hakumen one, anyways).

[Alpha152]

Here's a list of stuff that I think is decently optimal and let's me focus on neutral and pressure while auto-piloting the combos. I'm lazy and hate Overdrive so while I'm sure there's "optimal" combos for every OD situation I make it easy for myself and make a combo which can be extended with the more OD you have. 

 

OD Midscreen

• 6A > j.B > jc > OD > j.623C~D > 2D > [623C~D] incomplete
• 5B > 5CC > 2D(Lv2) > 5B > 6A > 2D > OD > 623C~D > 6A > [j.623C~D] incomplete

 

OD Near Corner

• 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > OD > 214A~D > 2C > [214B~D] > [623C~D] > [2D] > [j.D] > [5D] > 236236D

 

OD Near Corner (When 214AD will whiff)

• 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > OD > 5D > 2D > j.D > [2C] > [214B~D] > [214A~D] > [623C~D] > 236236D

 

OD Corner 

• 5B > 5CC > 5D > OD > 214A~C > 236D > [214A~D] > [2C] > [214B~D] > [623C~D] > [2D] > [j.D] > 236236D 

 

Midscreen

• 2B > 5B > 5CC > 2D(Lv2) > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C

            - 214A~B > 5A > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D 

            - 214B > j.C > j.B > (land) > j.B > jc > j.D

            - 236D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D *Near corner

• 6BC > 214A~C~B > 5B > 6A > 2D(Lv1) > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D *Crouching only
• 2AA > 2B > 5B > 5CC

           - 2D(Lv1)

           - 2D(Lv2) > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D

 

Near Corner

• 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~A > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D
• 2AA > 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D

 

Corner

• 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~A > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D 
• 2AA > 2B > 5B > 5CC > 2D(Lv2) > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D
• 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 2D > 5D
• 5AA > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 5D

 

Midscreen Throw

• Throw > 214A~A > 66A > 2D > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D
• Throw > 214A~A > 66A > 236D > 6A > 2D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D *Near corner
• Back Throw > 2B > 6A > 2D > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D
• Air Throw > 2B > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D

 

Corner Throw

• Throw > 66A > 236D > 6A > 2D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D
• Air Throw > 2B > 6A > 2D > 236D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 5D

 

Counter Hit

• 2C > 214C > j.C > (land) > 6A > 2D

          - 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D

          - 236D > 6A > j.B >jc > j.D > 2366A~D > 6A > 5D

• 214A~C~D > 5A > 5CC 

          - 2D > 5B > 6A > 2D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D

          - 5D > 2C > 236D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D *Corner only

• 214A~C~D > 5CC *Crouching only 

          - 2D > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~B > 5A > 6A > j.B >jc > j.D 

          - 2D > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214B > j.C > j.B > (land) > j.B > jc > j.D 

          - 5D > 2C > 236D > 6A > 2D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D *Corner only

• 214C~D > 2C 

          - 2D > 5B > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D

          - 236D > 6A > 2D > 6A > j.B > jc > j.D > 2366A~D > 6A > 5D *Corner only

[OmnixTSC]

snip

 

Neat. Later today, I'll compare these to the combos I use to note the damage differences and then put it all in a pastebin.

[Arc Raizen]

I went ahead and added all the combos I wrote down to the combo thread. Feel free to work with those too, although I don't delve into OD combos too much and I basically ignore 2D starter combos.

[Angry Guy of DE]

So I've been having a slight issue with converting some 6A in regards to jump-ins.  Unless you catch them rather high with the 6A you won't recover to do a raw 5B instead of gatling.
What do you normally do when the opponent is in that deadzone where they are too high to get hit by the 6A > 5B gatling but too low to let you recover and do a raw 5B? 
 

I know the normal options can be:

• 5A > 6A
• 6A > jc > air combo
• asteroid vision?
• 6A > jc > airdash j.B?

I feel like I'm giving up damage and corner carry on these awkward hits.  Relius has it easier with 2C FC...
 

[Kcin]

So I've been having a slight issue with converting some 6A in regards to jump-ins.  Unless you catch them rather high with the 6A you won't recover to do a raw 5B instead of gatling.

What do you normally do when the opponent is in that deadzone where they are too high to get hit by the 6A > 5B gatling but too low to let you recover and do a raw 5B? 

 

I know the normal options can be:

• 5A > 6A
• 6A > jc > air combo
• asteroid vision?
• 6A > jc > airdash j.B?

 

For me truthfully, I feel it out based on the factors at hand. I'll run through them and maybe it'll be of some help

 

If my back's to the wall or the corner is very close by, regardless of CH or not I autopilot into jc falling j.C > j.B > 66(cross under rejump) > j.B > j.D to send them to the corner in my place. After some thought I almost always falling j.C > j.B > j.B... after 6As because I often use my OD after jc'ing j.B into air DP > etc. on all normal confirms that go into an air combo.

 

if I'm close enough to keep going these are routes I autopilot starting with  2B > 5B > 6A > 2D...

> 236D > 6A> 5D > 6C > 623C~D (3048dmg) or 236236D (3917dmg)

> 2C> CT > 236236D (3760dmg)

> OD<75% > 623C~D > 236D > 5D > 214A~D > 236236D (4658dmg)

> OD<75% > 623C~D > 632146D > 5D(w.holding 4) > 214A~D > 236236D (5079dmg)

 

Optimized alternatives after the j.D into corner are 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 2D...

> 2C > CT > 236236D (4061dmg)

> OD<75% > 623C~D > 5D > 214A~D > 236236D (4839dmg)

> OD<75% > 623C~D > air 623C~D > 632146D > 236236D (5424dmg)

 

When the dead angle happens and I don't do the above I opt to do a late 5B > 5C > 2D(1) > 5B > 6A > (insert bnb).

From mid screen those few hits push enough to land them in the corner after j.D

 

after testing the 5A > 6A option, it's a really solid choice too because you can carry them about half the screen into orb oki, or switch sides with a micro on the 5A.

An Example would be midscreen CH 6A > 5A > 6A > 2D(3) > micro 2C > 214A > 236D > 66 > 6A jc >  j.B > j.D > 5D > orb oki (2669dmg) -or- 6C > 236236D (3881dmg)

[MarkusArx]

On the topic of Super Despair tier as well, how the hell are we supposed to deal with Noel? It feels like the matchup is worse than CSE somehow. 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

So I did some research on OD time limits based on health percentage remaining for Makoto. The 10% interval per increase is not exactly true.
 
My testing was performed as follows:

• Set training mode dummy to Makoto
• Created a recording that activated OD on frame 0 of the recording's frame count and lasts the duration of the maximum OD meter.
• While setting health to various percents, I activate the recording, and near the end of the OD meter, I pause buffer the game frame by frame while watching the frame count.
• Using the same method, OD activation is found to be 70 frames, this value is subtracted from the OD meter values presented below.
• The training dummy was not touched by any attacks or whatever during these frame buffered tests, as certain actions (hitstun) extend the life of the OD meter.

 

I tried to format this nicely, but every table I tried generated a weird ass preview that made no sense.

Health % Intervals, OD Frames

• 1-11, 587
• 12-23, 468
• 24-34, 408
• 35-44, 348
• 45-53, 318
• 54-62, 288
• 63-72, 258
• 73-81, 228
• 82-90, 198
• 91-100, 168

 

Anyway, the most notable pieces of information from this to me are:

• You have access to your two longest OD meters when you are below 24% health, not just when you are below 20% as the Wiki claims.
• The largest gain in OD meter frames occurs from the 12-23 interval to the 1-11 interval, increasing by a massive 119 frames. The next largest increase after that is only 60 frames.

 

 

Start memorizing how 'dem health bars should really look! 

[StarGazer]

https://twitter.com/Kei0511Ne/status/457071507466747904/photo/1

[Dark Ranger88]

Please tell me the hieroglyphs next to B don't say "Makoto" Star?

[Owner]

S: Azrael, Kokonoe, Litchi

A: Everyone else

B. Makoto

 

I'm deeply sorry

[Dark Ranger88]

QQ T_T

 

I guess I'll just have to get really good then. As of 1.1 I'll no longer be able to fraud it up as Makoto

[Arc Raizen]

Well, its not like we all didn't know that already, but what exactly is that from?

[Teutonicknight]

Extend all over again. Only this time, we are forever alone. Not gonna say I didn't see it coming, but would it kill them to make Makoto AT LEAST mid-tier again?

[OmniSScythe]

We're in need of some game breaking glitches to be mid tier. lol

[Teutonicknight]

Well, we got that Makoto-killing golden Tager glitch. It's game-breaking, though not necessarily something that makes us better.

Omni, I'm curious, what happens if you accidentally discover a (serious) glitch new to everyone during the end of a tourney? 

[OmniSScythe]

Well, we got that Makoto-killing golden Tager glitch. It's game-breaking, though not necessarily something that makes us better.

Omni, I'm curious, what happens if you accidentally discover a (serious) glitch new to everyone during the end of a tourney? 

Well I never been a TO but I guess it's depends on the type.

 

Say I found a way for unlimited OD exclusive to Makoto, it's not game breaking so it'll may rock since it wasn't outright banned but after said tournament it''ll probably be considered.

 

Then there's game breaking such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4cLOQfBttw

 

One hit then peace out for 99 "marvel" seconds.

[sharpshooter188]

I can still kind of hold my own online with Makoto, but the input delay cause of the lag completely throws off my timing. I got destroyed by a below average Azreal player 30 minutes ago because of which. DP wouldn't come out since the delay kept moving back and forth. What I'm wanting to get into is some unlimited matches. I played around with Unlimited Makoto and absolutely destroyed my roommates when they were using their unlimited characters. One Ragna and the other Amane. Have not tried online yet for unlimited. Is there a thread I can find more in depth info and combos for Unlimited Makoto?

[SuzakuRainmaker]

So I was listening to some Lupe while going through this thread and got inspired.

 

I got no OD, even Platinum beats me
My tier is a low-D, Mori don’t love me
Every matchup kills me, I lost my blockstrings
And I got no place to go

 

They nerfed my damage, can’t crush no planets
No one will main me, ArcSys disdains me
Miss Litchi won’t teach me, Arakune eats me
And it hurts me soul

 

i'm sorry

[Teutonicknight]

That's better than whatever I could come up with, lol. Not bad!

[Ragnarok_F4]

From where is that pic from? Looks like some type of magazine.

[OmnixTSC]

I forgot about that pastebin I was supposed to make. Sorry, guys 

 

I'll get to it eventually, I promise.