[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Master Of Chaos]

Wait, so Goro left too? Really?

 

This picture could not be anymore appropriate: 

 

#TheStruggleHasDied 

[SuzakuRainmaker]

Are you people trying to stroke my ego because goddamn is it working. I had no idea that silly little thing would actually get some love.

 

On topic: Definitely gonna try some acorn combos when we get the patch. I mean, I have a hashtag to live up to, after all. That's about the only thing I'm looking forward to out of her changelog tbh.

[Teutonicknight]

I played on a friend's copy, and I'd gladly practice comboing into it. That is, if the move decides to come out. >.>

Seriously, couldn't BB have forward taunts like Guilty Gear so we have immediate access to the acorn or something? 10% chance is stoopid.

[milesw]

Acorn routes prorate like a bitch. But if i remember correctly you can still crank out a bnb out of it.

[Teutonicknight]

As a starter? I'd laugh at the guy unless he let it happen on purpose, lol...

I hate going back to the acorn topic, but I might as well make the most out of it since it's the only change I... somewhat... like. :/

 

When it rolls on the ground, it definitely has a tiny bit more hitboxes towards the end of the move. Still not overly useful, but hey, it's something.

[Dark Ranger88]

@milesw I tried after 5b, but im try to learn it in different situations and ranges

 

 

5B doesn't gatling into 6B so you are actually waiting for 5B recovery then start up your 6B which makesa gap of like 26~ frame in total.

 

Frame trap is the anti mashing mechanic, do more frame traps, punish their mashing attempts and buy respect so you can 6B safely. If you are losing to DP mash then:

 

-try fast strings like 2A~2A > 6B

-2A > 2A > 2B > (backdash/block) bait for DP > resume pressure

-2A or 2B > jump barrier to bait DP > fall down with j.C

 

 

Alright Stargazer gave you the basics. Best mixup comes off of 2A in the form of:

 

2A > 2B (Low)

2A > 6B (Overhead)

2A > B+C (Throw) [You can also do 2A > dash > throw]

2A > 2A/2B/5B/5C (Frametrap)

 

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But there are creative [AKA: Gimmicky] ways to open up certain types of opponents...

 

Blocking Specialists: Some people have good reactions and are able to block your overhead and throw attempts almost every time. For these people you have to get a little bit more bold/tricky.

 

If they stop your 2A into high/low mixup every time, you can add 2A > 5A (Whiff) > 2B into the mix to try and confuse them (Fake overhead). The startup for 5A and 6B look similar (Makoto stands straight up before attacking), so if they are trying to react to 6B's animation, they'll stand up for 5A then get tagged by 2B. Furthermore, 5A (Whiff) > 2B (24 frames) and 6B (22) frames have almost the same timing, so it will also beat people who try to use the rhythm of your attacks to block your mixup. Alternatively...you could just try to throw them if they block your high/low every time.

 

There are some gimmicky ways to slip throws in during your blockstrings too:

 

Stuff > 214A~A > Throw (This one's a classic, and it can be done after any normal)

214A~C > Throw

5CC > Throw

Stuff > 214C~D (Whiff / Land) > Throw (A squirrel gets laid every time you land this on someone)

 

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There are also techniques to stop people who are good at teching throws. The most well known is the Throw Reject Miss setup. In a place where you would normally throw, do 2A > Purple throw instead. If they thought you were going to throw and tried to tech, they'll get the "Throw Reject Miss" message, and you can combo them. The simplest way to do this is:

 

2A > 66 > Throw (Normal throw setup)

2A > 66 > 2A > Purple Throw ("Throw Reject Miss" setup)

 

But it's best to go for a TRM wherever YOU would normally do a throw.

 

If your opponent uses B+C to tech throws, you can also fake a throw then jump. If they bite you can hit them out of their throw animation's recovery. Some ways to do this are:

 

2A > 66 > 7 (Backwards jump) > j.CC

Stuff > 214A~A > Jump > j.CC

[Teutonicknight]

Saving all that to notepad. Good stuff for me to practice too.

[Dark Ranger88]

Uhh I have a sort of gimmicky thing I do from time to time with Cosmic Ray lvl2.

 

Anyways Cosmic Ray lvl 2 starts up really quickly, has a frame (dis)advantage of -1 and leaves you right in front of your opponent (even if they were using barrier). You can use this to your advantage in blockstrings against characters who have 7 frame (or slower) 2As (which is roughly half of the cast). The best they can do is trade with you and their 5As will whiff.

 

Note: This doesn't work against characters with 6 frame jabs that hit crouchers, so people like Bang, Azrael, Taokaka, Makoto etc will beat your 2A.

 

However, what makes it even better is that it can easily lull your opponent into a false sense of security. Using Cosmic Ray lvl 2 makes it look like you messed up your blockstring, which will prompt most people to mash 2A mindlessly. On top of that the timing of when they have to hit 2A in order to trade is tricky because you have to do it earlier than what you would expect (You have to hit 2A when Makoto's front foot hits the ground). Most people will just get hit in the face by your jab because they got the timing wrong.

[StarGazer]

stuff

 

Keep writing up Makoto technology in public and it will be impossible to win with her

[Teutonicknight]

Either way, we're scratching the bottom of the barrel for pretty much semi-viable strategies and we STILL can't keep up. I'm counting on Arc to remove these strategies gimmicks too eventually, to where Makoto is beyond bare bones as a fighter. 

 

*sigh* I'm sick of her being the Dan of BB already. I thought that role was for Amane. Makoto feels like she was meant to be a bad ass, not a training dummy.

[Chaoschao222]

Meanwhile Amane lost out on advantageous glitches and Makoto's PF got fixed.

[Angry Guy of DE]

If BlazBlue teaches us anything it is one thing:  Don't be friends with Noel.  Everyone that is friends with her just keeps getting nerfed.

[Teutonicknight]

Tsubaki's in a good spot right now though, right? Makoto's pretty much the most severe case of character neglect I've ever seen in a game. It's a shame they chose to do this with such a great character for no good reason three damn times, much less with my favorite.

 

When are we going to write Arc some hate mail?

[OmnixTSC]

When are we going to write Arc some hate mail?

 

When it would actually serve a purpose. If only it did.

 

Well, at least PF got fixed. Good players will still rise to the top with her in Japan. Going to miss seeing Goro if he completely stopped playing her, though. 

[Dark Ranger88]

Keep writing up Makoto technology in public and it will be impossible to win with her

 

You and I both know that no one checks the Makoto boards except for Makoto players and mAc Chaos

 

There's no threat here; they've all been lulled to sleep.

[Teutonicknight]

I don't think Goro would quit playing Makoto that easily, but playing her as she is now is daunting for a lot of people. I find it funny that Kokonoe was the most broken character in BB's history and got the highest amount of flack in the shortest amount of time, and they let her pass for S tier a second time in a row.

Yet they nerf someone who was consistently weak for three games. Weird. :/

 

I guess I am happy with the PF fix (if it is a "good" fix), now we just need BBS to get fixed too. 

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'm missing what is being referred to as PF being fixed.  Does the OD version still do 1050 min. damage with the finisher or is it still reduced to the same as non-OD with 700 min. damage with the finisher?

[Yazumatto]

When it would actually serve a purpose. If only it did.

 

Well, at least PF got fixed. Good players will still rise to the top with her in Japan. Going to miss seeing Goro if he completely stopped playing her, though. 

He did. He is 100% Kokonoe right now. Just like Matsu is 100% Ragna now.

But hey, let me know when you find a good squirrel player so I can update the video thread.

...I wish my above statement sounded less sarcastic and condescending. :/

[D.R.F.]

Wow, reading this makes me so mad at the bb team... I dont even use makoto:/

[Ragnarok_F4]

I'm missing what is being referred to as PF being fixed.  Does the OD version still do 1050 min. damage with the finisher or is it still reduced to the same as non-OD with 700 min. damage with the finisher?

 

This! I don't know what happened, is the patch absolute? or they indeed changed back the PF damage? I'm lost.

[Fujiwara]

You and I both know that no one checks the Makoto boards except for Makoto players and mAc Chaos

 

There's no threat here; they've all been lulled to sleep.

I always snoop around this forum.

absorbing what info I can.

but, I am a former makoto player, so maybe I fall into the first category.

 

I also enjoy watching makoto a lot, and I've found some squirrel matches.

Lemme go look for them. Sounds like some of you guys don't have any visuals yet..

Here we have yamada trying to survive the Tao braindead blockstring/hitconfirm symphony https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_Y8AF77BrNA#t=1727 it continues here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JT8Tx93AFs

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_F1tnLGhY&feature=player_detailpage#t=1413 yamada vs terumi

 

 

Look around for Yamada right now.

He's dying, but it's something...

[Teutonicknight]

It's hard to see when we've been "lulled to sleep".

I still enjoy Makoto a ton more than most other characters too, she just needs definitive changes for once. Good to know some vids are popping up.

[mAc Chaos]

Nobody can escape my All Seeing Eye.

[TagerTime]

From S tier to Tager... i mean Makoto tier. I feel sory for you guys but im glad ASW finally hates someone more than Tager lol.

[Teutonicknight]

Tager at least didn't have his very playstyle crippled, and he was consistently fun to use, even when he was bottom. Makoto has it bad in way more ways than one. Besides, being bottom is a grappler's chronic weakness in almost every game just by the way they play, but Tager has something that other grappler's would find useful; MAGNETISM.