[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Tari]

It's pretty much a matter of delaying it a little, yeah.

The timing window of the second 623B depends completely on the height of the opponent when you hit them with the first 623B. The lower they are, the more time you have to combo the second one. If they're too high when you catch them, then they'll tech before you can hit them with the second one.

You can see this by changing the combo from 2A > 5B to 2A > 5C and checking how high they tech (it won't combo).

[Keo-bas]

can i join the izayoi club? I at first main bullet but after messing with izayoi, i plan to make her my main. I'm surprise i didn't pick her up sooner since I main i-no.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Keo-bas

[Justice7541]

can i join the izayoi club? I atfirst main bullet but after messing with izayoi, i plan to make her my main. Im surprise i didint pick he rup sooner sooner since I main i-no.

Private party only bud, stick with Bullet.

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[skd]

Private party only bud, stick with Bullet.

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If that's the case, who invited you?

[Justice7541]

You did remember? Plz

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[Keo-bas]

pity guess I'll have to come back to the after party. She's too much fun right now.

[Tari]

My Izayoi text file keeps growing and growing. Wheeeeee.

I find myself always wanting to just teleport around the screen for fun.

[PZ__]

Hey coming in from lurking. Does anyone have a strategy on approaching characters that have better normals than you. I'm mostly talking about Ragna and the like. Their 5b just makes you have to barrier block or eat a counter hit and 3.5k?

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[Ichipoo]

My Izayoi text file keeps growing and growing. Wheeeeee.

I find myself always wanting to just teleport around the screen for fun.

Send it to me on twitter mang, don't worry I won't reveal its secrets.

[Dark Ranger88]

Hey coming in from lurking. Does anyone have a strategy on approaching characters that have better normals than you. I'm mostly talking about Ragna and the like. Their 5b just makes you have to barrier block or eat a counter hit and 3.5k?

I'll try to give some advice here, but better members should chime in if you see anything misleading.

In normal mode you want to try and zone these guys out first with 236A (Sonic Sabre). From a distance, do sonic sabre on the ground and they'll either have to block it (meaning stocks for you) or jump over it. When they get close enough to where they can airdash in to hit you, you should have 623B ready in anticipation to knock them out of the sky.

(I think) that's the most basic Izayoi neutral. Opening gambits are important here, because if you try to create distance the same way (back air dash) at the start of every match, your opponent will chase you and either get a free combo or pressure. Also if your opponent thinks he's smart you can cook 236C. He'll think it's 623B (they have the same startup animation) and he'll try to run at you unsuccessfully.

I'm really not that strong in Gain Arte neutral, but you can still do the same 236A/623B zoning to get in. If they block a Sabre you can 214D behind them to start pressure, and if you catch them with a 623B (People jump a lot when you're in GA mode) you can Strike Fall into oki.

[crimsonstardust]

Hey coming in from lurking. Does anyone have a strategy on approaching characters that have better normals than you. I'm mostly talking about Ragna and the like. Their 5b just makes you have to barrier block or eat a counter hit and 3.5k?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Personally I found doing Air Sonic Sabre to be great in the neutral in general, the angle of it makes it harder for characters with a stronger ground game to make the approach, helps if your opponent likes to try and jump at you to. I had a few occasions someone crossed under me during air sonic sabre but if you are aware of this you can drop down with a normal if they don't respect that and don't use anti airs. One of the guys I play with locally finds it very annoying that I play an annoying fireball game with the Sonic sabres, honestly if that's what it takes to get that win, do it, a lot of players that aren't patient will try to jump at you so 623B is great for that cause it has just enough invisibility on it so you can smack them in the air.

I haven't played against a Ragna yet but being a Ragna main also here's my 2cents on it (I haven't played online yet ^^; ). Having a few tools to get around fireballs and such, your 623B needs to be pretty spot on. I know some people mentioned 6C -> 236A (sonic sabre) is a good block string but it has some risks to it, if 6C get's instant blocked that gives a lot of room for a invincible reversal, even if its not instant blocked its still possible to mash a invincible reversal in between the 2 attacks cause its not a true block string (I tested this just to know my options), it'll work great against people that don't have a good one though. I would try to stay full screen unless your ready to go ham on him, Ragna can't do to much full screen, and most Ragna players will fish for hits with 5B so try to stay out of the midscreen range or that range in general, cause you might be able to whiff punish it with 6C (both versions).

I haven't tested 5B -> 236C max range on everyone yet but I know Ragna can punish it just cause 5B is a stupidly good normal and fast if I might add, I know some characters have similar ranges but I'm not 100% sure on this but I think Azrael can't punish it if its at 5B's max range (have to test it again cause I was tired when I was in the lab with it) and like I said still have to test it with everyone. You might be able to sneak in a few frame trap variations on it to keep them a little honest, you can sneak in a 214C once in a bit but its very punishable by Ragna.

During gain art, like what Dark Ranger said, basically those same neutral game tactics work well and if you get a 623B during this mode don't be afraid to burn some stars for 214D to get some extra damage in, that sends the message that you will cash your damage in, also during gain art during the upward dashes you can cancel them to air dashes or jump so that adds extra mobility options. I suggest not to do raw 214D teleports cause they can be punished if your opponent knows it coming and mashes 2A or something similar, basically bottom line with the teleport is use it sparingly raw cause you will find the chances to punish something with it. I also suggest if your gonna use Phorizer as a revesral to try and be in gain art, mostly cause if you get a counter hit with it you can follow up with it and get some good damage in.

Edited November 5, 2013 by crimsonstardust

[lxMetalSonicxl]

Yeah the worst part is that they can actually block 623B or 623C with very little consequence besides one stock. Pretty much zoning with Jin fireballs and Fubuki.

Honestly, we just have to outplay. Nothing else to it, we have decent tools to win with. Gain art is amazing but its mainly because 214D exists to punish and 236D keeps them blocking. Overall it feels a bit weaker in neutral than regular mode.

A personal gripe I have is that her max range combos are forced to follow stars route and knock them away. That means we have to knock them away and win at neutral AGAIN. I like getting knockdown with my combos and I don't mind losing a few stars in the process, but when we are too far it ain't happening unless 2 stars is all you want.

[Dark Ranger88]

A personal gripe I have is that her max range combos are forced to follow stars route and knock them away. That means we have to knock them away and win at neutral AGAIN. I like getting knockdown with my combos and I don't mind losing a few stars in the process, but when we are too far it ain't happening unless 2 stars is all you want.

My thoughts exactly. Why couldn't they just make 5B jump cancellable on hit? We'd be able to transition into Gain Arte pressure more easily, and it would make confirming combos on jumpy opponents easier too. It wouldn't even make her OP or anything, just more fair.

[Airk]

My thoughts exactly. Why couldn't they just make 5B jump cancellable on hit? We'd be able to transition into Gain Arte pressure more easily, and it would make confirming combos on jumpy opponents easier too. It wouldn't even make her OP or anything, just more fair.

Because at the end of the day, all versions of Tsubaki need to be underpowered and have bad normals. :P

[abadlime]

Honestly, we just have to outplay. Nothing else to it, we have decent tools to win with. Gain art is amazing but its mainly because 214D exists to punish and 236D keeps them blocking. Overall it feels a bit weaker in neutral than regular mode.

Basically, but we're almost playing rock paper scissors where we only get two options and the opponent knows that.

Which part of GA is weaker in neutral besides the damage and range? I actually feel safer in GA than in neutral.

Personally, the only real problem i have with Izayoi is that we don't have a legit AA to fall back on. 623C makes me feel uneasy when using it as an AA.

Edited November 5, 2013 by abadlime
grammar

[Dark Ranger88]

Personally I found doing Air Sonic Sabre to be great in the neutral in general, the angle of it makes it harder for characters with a stronger ground game to make the approach, helps if your opponent likes to try and jump at you to. I had a few occasions someone crossed under me during air sonic sabre but if you are aware of this you can drop down with a normal if they don't respect that and don't use anti airs. One of the guys I play with locally finds it very annoying that I play an annoying fireball game with the Sonic sabres, honestly if that's what it takes to get that win, do it, a lot of players that aren't patient will try to jump at you so 623B is great for that cause it has just enough invisibility on it so you can smack them in the air.

Oh yeah. Air Sonic Sabre can be useful in neutral, you just have to be wary of who you're facing. People with asshole j.Cs (Jin, Mu, Ragna, Hakumen, etc.) can hit you out of it pretty easily. Mu can even do full combos off of that T.T Also fast characters like Makoto can easily run under it.

On a side note you can use Aerial Sabre to get free hits off of people who like to anti-air. Jump or IAD at Tsubaki usually prompts their 2C reaction, which is then hit by a Sabre. I just wish there was a way to combo off of this on counter hit like Extend Jin could (I don't know if he can do this in CP or not).

Airk don't even get me started on that topic ;.;

[lxMetalSonicxl]

Which part of GA is weaker in neutral besides the damage and range? I acually feel safer in GA than in neutral.

The loss of quickdash barrier and quickdash 623B. Gain art seems to be a Sonic Saber > teleport thing more than anything.

[Celerity]

Yeah, being far away in GA with 4 or less stars means I'm switching back. The hoverdash is actually a drawback when trying to approach, since you lose all of your ground options, and you become very reliant on 214D to get in. It's not so much that GA neutral is bad, it's that it eats your stars like crazy.

[crimsonstardust]

Alright I need some pointers landing 5A 5C after a strike fall, I know the heights I try them at works cause I sometimes get it to work when I mash 5A.

EDIT: I made a mistake earlier when I was talking about 5B->236C, Ragna can't punish this at Izayoi's 5B's max range even with an instant block on 236C, sorry about that guys.

Edited November 6, 2013 by crimsonstardust

[skd]

Hmmm. I heavily prefer being in gain art for neutral :v it's really good. Learn to control space! And 5a 5c after strike fall is just that, you kinda just have to do it. It's easy even if you single tap. Hold the button for the buffer?

[Tari]

Alright I need some pointers landing 5A 5C after a strike fall, I know the heights I try them at works cause I sometimes get it to work when I mash 5A.

EDIT: I made a mistake earlier when I was talking about 5B->236C, Ragna can't punish this at Izayoi's 5B's max range even with an instant block on 236C, sorry about that guys.

If you aren't doing Strike Fall while the opponent is still at the apex of the hit from Noir, you probably won't be able to combo your 5A (unless you're either really high up or you're in overdrive). If you're doing it while they're up there and you can't get the 5A, then it's just timing. Try buffering it, like not_lunaris said.

Just went through and tested a bunch of relaunch stuff on the entire cast. I can't seem to make it work on Noel, but variations of the relaunch work on the entire cast (and the basic j.B > delay j.A > j.C works on everyone but Noel).

Has anyone had luck on Noel?

I want some confirmation on that before I consider those notes correct.

[crimsonstardust]

Ok now I got it now, thanks guys.

[iora]

question time!

in normal: 5a 5c 236b 214a 2a 5c 623b 214b 623b. they ALWAYS tech above the last 623b (like i am barely whiffing it). what am i doing wrong!

in normal: do you prefer to go for stars or damage? or are the maximum star combos the highest damage also?

in normal: how useful is 3c jump cancel tk-j236c?

in normal: 3c rc 6c - seems to add a lot of damage, but i still suck at doing her combos and didnt have a ton of time in training since i was doing casuals with a friend. is this a thing worth doing, and if so what would be an example combo for it?

in gain art: midscreen, 5a 5b 236c 6d 214b 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc j236c 2d - i sometimes whiff the 5b after 214b, any tips on inputting all of that fast enough to stop whiffing shit? or just practice it and go faster?

in gain art: throw 236c 6d 2c(2) 236d - worth doing to cut the combo short for a mixup chance, or just continue the combo and get post-strike fall oki instead?

thanks for replies.... im working on this best i can for not having the console. this bitch is hard as hell to play but i enjoy it ~_~

Edited November 6, 2013 by iora

[Celerity]

question time!

in normal: 5a 5c 236b 214a 2a 5c 623b 214b 623b. they ALWAYS tech above the last 623b (like i am barely whiffing it). what am i doing wrong!

in normal: do you prefer to go for stars or damage? or are the maximum star combos the highest damage also?

in normal: how useful is 3c jump cancel tk-j236c?

in normal: 3c rc 6c - seems to add a lot of damage, but i still suck at doing her combos and didnt have a ton of time in training since i was doing casuals with a friend. is this a thing worth doing, and if so what would be an example combo for it?

in gain art: midscreen, 5a 5b 236c 6d 214b 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc j236c 2d - i sometimes whiff the 5b after 214b, any tips on inputting all of that fast enough to stop whiffing shit? or just practice it and go faster?

in gain art: throw 236c 6d 2c(2) 236d - worth doing to cut the combo short for a mixup chance, or just continue the combo and get post-strike fall oki instead?

thanks for replies.... im working on this best i can for not having the console. this bitch is hard as hell to play but i enjoy it ~_~

1. Off of a short starter (5A/2A/j.A) and after 236B > 214A, you need to do 2B/2A > 623B directly so that they're low enough for the next 623B to connect.

2. Almost always as many stars as possible. If my combo allows me to go to 6+ stars and end in j.C knockdown > j.D, I'll do that instead.

3. It could be useful. I don't really go for TK Noir stuff in normal mode because I like saving my meter for Phorizer, but 3C is probably one of the best ways to get there. I believe 3C > 236B leaves a one frame gap, and 3C > TK Noir is gapless. One thing to be aware of is that 3C > 236B does not combo except on CH, however.

4. 3C > RC > 6C? Are we talking 3C CH? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're referring to.

5. Make sure you're canceling into 214B as soon as 236C~6D hits. Most execution errors in her teleport combos come from not teleporting early enough. If it helps, you can think of it like 236C > 6D~214B, you've got a lot of time to get the 6D out.

6. Unsure on this as I've never tried it. Strike Fall oki is pretty strong as is, and you're giving up about 600 damage.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Celerity

[Dark Ranger88]

in gain art: midscreen, 5a 5b 236c 6d 214b 5b 5c j.bc dj.bc j236c 2d - i sometimes whiff the 5b after 214b, any tips on inputting all of that fast enough to stop whiffing shit? or just practice it and go faster?

For this one you also have to make sure you're not accidentally doing 236B instead of 236C. 236B doesn't launch them as high and it makes the timing much more difficult.

Also it you're doing this combo and you reach the end of the screen you will sometimes cross under your opponent with 214B and be in the corner. This will cause 5B to whiff vs most characters. To remedy this, omit 5B and just do 5C if you find yourself in the corner after the 214B teleport. You'll know you're doing the 5C right if it looks fucking awesome. (Izayoi will hit them while facing in the opposite direction, then you can normal jump cancel to finish the rest of the combo)