Adam0812 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 For me, I just wish her defensive options were similar to Jin's. C DP having full body invul and B DP having head invul. Right now she's so easily bullied because the options she does have aren't very reliable. Simply having C DP to get out of pressure would fix not only that, but off counter-hit that 8 stocks and she can go ham, hell you'd even be able to get a corner switch out of that and pretty much turn the tide of the battle. I also wish she could have better air normals, but her current options pretty much imply that she should be on the ground in normal mode, which I'm personally fine with since I don't like to really jump around all that much and hate when I have to chase after people who do so, but that's just me. I feel like I had a whole list of things, but this point is the one I really wish we had. Yeah, we have to work harder, but I'm at the point where I feel like I'm losing because of bad fundamentals, specifically horrible neutral, than the character itself being that bad so my complaints are limited. Well that and a lack of creativity. :/ You can't just make dp's proper DP's though such in the way you described. Specifically her C DP you would have make it recover much slower and make it unteleport cancel able. I think her reversal options should still be relatively weak (even though it's annoying) given her pressure in GA. Maybe speed up the guard point to make it more like bang's as he can only get it out if you don't meaty him. Make 6a and 6b comboable, at least on crouching would help.
CeruleanEdge125 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 You can't just make dp's proper DP's though such in the way you described. Specifically her C DP you would have make it recover much slower and make it unteleport cancel able. I think her reversal options should still be relatively weak (even though it's annoying) given her pressure in GA. Maybe speed up the guard point to make it more like bang's as he can only get it out if you don't meaty him. Make 6a and 6b comboable, at least on crouching would help. Point. I suppose I would rather have a faster guard point and keep Aegis and Alpha the way they are since all I really want is an option I can believe in. Being able to combo off 6A would be nice, but as far as 6B goes, it reminds me of Jin's 6A where you can only combo off of it using meter or CH. I can work with that as a former Jin player, but any buffs would be welcome.
Rhannmah Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I agree, Izayoi doesn't need to have a meterless reversal, there's already enough of that in this game. She's an offense oriented character, i think it would be out of her playstyle to have a reversal "just because". Not having one forces you to be good at predicting your opponent's movements and being good at blocking, and her gameplay is more interesting because of it. That said, not having reversal options implies having the tools to play without one, which she doesn't have right now, as i explained in my previous posts. as far as 6B goes, it reminds me of Jin's 6A where you can only combo off of it using meter or CH. I can work with that as a former Jin player, but any buffs would be welcome. but that's the thing, Izayoi is not Jin. They have completely different playstyles, and for a character so based on offense, Izayoi's 6b makes no sense when you can just crusade seraphim cancel your normals into hoverdash j.b which is faster and leads to combos. This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes me say that this character isn't well thought out. Edited January 18, 2014 by Rhannmah
Adam0812 Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 And they gotta make 5b jump cancellable on hit for god sake. Number of times you tag your enemy with 5b when they're airborne and can't do anything (at least not easily). I'm sure GA j.C could be improved. I'm guessing it's hitbox doesn't extend very hit cause I always seem to lose the in the air w/ j.C
Wild Candy Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 I think some interesting buffs for Izayoi could lnclude Some invincibility on 623B, but only like 2 or 3 frames, so it could be used as a situational DP. Lowering the cost of 214D Teleport to one stock Make some of her normals hover dash cancelable in Gain Art Mode to better improve mix ups Make 6B comboable without meter or counter hit so she has a real mix up game in normal mode, and can actually land a hit to perform a combo to earn stocks. Maybe give her another projectile to improve her overall zoning game in Normal mode Make it so that her D Sonic Sabre has a higher priority then other projectiles, so it doesn't break just by hitting something like Rachel's 5B. Those are just a few things I can think of.
Codename Exia Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Just let my max-range 5B go into 5C. That's all I want out of life.
crimsonstardust Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Just let my max-range 5B go into 5C. That's all I want out of life. This would be nice... I know that using 5A isn't as common of an anti air to use for some characters, but a few other characters I main/sub I do find it to be pretty useful as an anti air, how do you guys feel about 5A as an anti air? I haven't tired it with Izayoi cause I haven't been able to compare the hit/hurt box with a few characters I think it works decently with.
Codename Exia Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Cross-under 5A is strong against deep jump-ins though i tend to fiddle around with the DP's more since they are teleport-cancellable and will net stars. 2C can also be used to anti-air certain deep jump-ins. I've had some success with it, but it's insanely difficult. (It's safer to use this if you've made a jump-in whiff tbh, but it's still pretty good)
Canary Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I've been playing Blazblue since CT back a long time ago and I played C2,CS2 and CS:E, though I've been patiently waiting for CP with some unfortunate disappointments. I have this weird compulsion with fighting games where I immediately play the top-tier characters, something just repulses me about spending a lot of time into a character that won't really go that far. Even when I hear how balanced a fighting game is, it just seems like I have this mindset where the characters I play are either inferior or superior to other characters in fighting games. Anyway, when I saw Izayoi revealed in November 2012 I was absolutely ecstatic, I flipped my shit, so fucking excited. I watched as many videos as I could to see her attacks and abilities and I was just so like, absorbed into that character. So naturally when I saw the tier lists that I could actually find for the game, seeing Izayoi bottom tier hurt a lot. I never understood why, and more importantly, I was worried playing her would just be a waste of time and that I'd just lose a majority of my games as a result of her deficiencies. Can someone please help me understand whether she is "bad" or "good?" Because I see various discussions saying that people don't understand how to use her just yet, or that she actually has a lot potential: I just wanted to find people who could answer this question because it's bothers me a lot to think my favourite character would be so low on the tier list. Thanks for reading and shit. Edited January 22, 2014 by Canary
Codename Exia Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Personally I think she can win it'll just require a lot more work. Problems I have with the character personally: -Potentially large wind-up time to get into Gain-Art -Very "meh" or poor anti-airs -Her optimal damage combos can be a pain to do sometimes (esp. in Normal mode) Regardless of these things she can still win. You just need to prepared to pour a lot of effort into the character to try and make her work. She's more of a reflection of her player because she has a bunch of tools; they're just slightly/extremely difficult to use.
Canary Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for the response, I'll work really hard to get good at her. Appreciate that you answered.
Celerity Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Izayoi is underrated given the fact that only one Japanese player uses her at a high level, and everybody else who tried her gave up in a week. She's not a good character, but she's far from the worst, and she has a lot of room to outplay people if you master her. Plus, she's almost guaranteed to get a lot of buffs in CP2 given how often she's downplayed, and she's the type of character who could easily be broken with the right improvements.
crimsonstardust Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 She's not absolute crap as some people make it seem but at the same time her tool set is a little odd to work with at first. I think the hardest think I find about her as a whole is really getting a good grasp with how to move with her in GA mode. Most characters can usually move in with barrier runs (is that the right term? Running and using barrier as breaks?) but with the movement options she has it makes it hard to just go in carelessly as its really easy for your opponent to stick a normal if they see you coming in with her dash. I know a lot of people mention how they find it troublesome they have to build up meter just to start offensive ball rolling but I don't find this to be that much of an issue personally, it's when I find out of meter that's when I cry a little but I usually try to treat the meter building as sort of a neutral game phase and there are ways to build quick stocks and get back on it. She's not easy to use or brainless even, it's probably took me 2-4 times the normal amount of time it took me to learn a character for Izayoi cause I'm a lot more conscious about the moves I make cause her tool set isn't the best. In the end I play Izayoi cause I wanted to make Gundam jokes with her with my local scene but no watched the Gudam series like I did so that kinda failed but loved her character design so I just stuck with it.
Canary Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Thanks guys, when I can get it on console, I look forward to mastering her.
Justice7541 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 My Izayoi wishlist: - 623B has better hitbox - Horizontal version of A Sonic Saber, like Jin's air ice sword - 6A has actual invul OR is safe on block OR is teleport cancelable - New GA j.B for air-to-air Honestly I think that's all she really needs to be decent. The whole "power up by attacking" thing would be fine if she actually had decent ways to get in and/or keep the opponent off before she gets it. Right now she is super gimped prior to getting GA, if the opponent turtles and/or rushes down you're kinda screwed. Also an air teleport (that isn't D) would be nice but not really necessary. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Velvien Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17720-CP-News-Gameplay-Discussion/page86&p=1596997&viewfull=1#post1596997 - Izayoi's combos are now bit more difficult, but cancelable moves has increased and revolver action is now easier to connect. - More differences between her modes. - Gain Art mode's "Hover Dash" can now be used in air. Movement is reverse from the ground version (from high to the ground) and stick can be used to control its movement. - Aerial backstep also changed to the same as her ground backstep, where she floats diagonally backwards - Sonic Saber now costs 2 blocks (previously 1) - Mirage Thruster now costs 1 block (previously 2) - Combining new hover dash and Mirage Thruster creates interesting movement.
crimsonstardust Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 It's seems a little vague what combos are harder means to me, I'm hoping it doesn't mess with jBAC loops to much. Hover dash changes sounds interesting, though I wish they had a little more info on how the movement will work now, cause the way I'm interpreting it sounds kinda how Aigis moves in P4A. I'm not sure if I like the sonic sabre change, if it had better durability it would make sense cause I feel like its not even worth using as a zoning tool and its more like a lockdown tool and sets up mix up opportunities, but that might be why they made that change, I do like the mirage thrust change cause I used it sparingly for mix ups and punishes. Personally I was hoping they would make minor gattling changes like being able to do 5B > 2B. The one other thing I'd like to see is addressing anti airing with her, if 623B is quick like Jin's counter part I wouldn't mind as much.
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17720-CP-News-Gameplay-Discussion/page86&p=1596997&viewfull=1#post1596997 - Izayoi's combos are now bit more difficult, but cancelable moves has increased and revolver action is now easier to connect. Umm I think it's been retranslated. It now says that her combos are too difficult pre-patch. So after the patch they will be easier. Hopefully they make it so that GA5C doesn't whiff every time you use it. Also 5B jump cancel *fingers crossed*
crimsonstardust Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah I just saw that new bit. Still not liking the sonic sabre change cause she doesn't have to many other ways to start air up without it, it's to easy to hit her out of a raw GA dash into jB/C but if the movement options make up for it then I'd be fine with that. I'm not sure how a 5B jump cancel would help but I'm open to hear thoughts on that.
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I'm not sure how a 5B jump cancel would help but I'm open to hear thoughts on that. Oh for whenever you hit someone with a random 5B when they were trying to jump or were already in the air. both of your 5Cs tend to miss and it can be difficult to react with 623B in time. Having a 5B jump cancel on hit at least would make it easier to setup oki and get into GA mixup because you could do 5B > JC > j.BAC > j.D.
Justice7541 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah I just saw that new bit. Still not liking the sonic sabre change cause she doesn't have to many other ways to start air up without it, it's to easy to hit her out of a raw GA dash into jB/C but if the movement options make up for it then I'd be fine with that. I'm not sure how a 5B jump cancel would help but I'm open to hear thoughts on that. 5B IAD > high/low would be funny if it ends up being possible. Or just 5B back IAD to bait out DPs and the like. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
crimsonstardust Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Oh for whenever you hit someone with a random 5B when they were trying to jump or were already in the air. both of your 5Cs tend to miss and it can be difficult to react with 623B in time. Having a 5B jump cancel on hit at least would make it easier to setup oki and get into GA mixup because you could do 5B > JC > j.BAC > j.D. That is true, I usually cover my 5B with a 236A/C but I can see what you mean by that, I know characters that have good 5Bs can convert off of it in some way so that would be nice to be able to do something with it aside from a simple special cancel. On the note of 5B, I always found it a pretty odd it can't gatling into 2B when a good number of characters can, its a minor thing but it would be nice to have that option for a little more variety, I know you can do 2B > 5B though.
Seventh-Prodigy Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17720-CP-News-Gameplay-Discussion/page86&p=1596997&viewfull=1#post1596997 - Sonic Saber now costs 2 blocks (previously 1) - Mirage Thruster now costs 1 block (previously 2) Ouch, I can only feel like this is going to hurt both my neutral game and pressure. Really can't afford to throw out random 236Ds now since it's so expensive, and since it's very easy to jump over or clash projectiles with, I can't see where I'd use it outside of blockstrings. Can't say 214D's stock usage being reduced to 1 helps because it was gimmicky and sparingly used to begin with. Hopefully the new GA movement will create some good mix-up/cross-up scenarios for oki?
Justice7541 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Ouch, I can only feel like this is going to hurt both my neutral game and pressure. Really can't afford to throw out random 236Ds now since it's so expensive, and since it's very easy to jump over or clash projectiles with, I can't see where I'd use it outside of blockstrings. Can't say 214D's stock usage being reduced to 1 helps because it was gimmicky and sparingly used to begin with. Hopefully the new GA movement will create some good mix-up/cross-up scenarios for oki? The new GA movement is looking to be a huge buff but I guess we'll really just have to wait and see exactly how it ends up working in practice. If it is like Aigis's Orgia movement then lol.
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hmm...If 214D has been reduced to 1 stock in neutral...does that mean that it costs zero stocks during combos? Also I can't wait to play around with the new GA dashes. I read that her airdash in gain art would be replaced by the hover dash (going at a downward angle rather than an upward one). Did you guys gather the same thing from reading the translations? If so does that mean that an instant air dash in GA would turn into a quick downwards hoverdash?
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