[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[4r5]

Gotta make 2014, no time to update website assist.

[Luminos564]

No date for Ramlethal yet, however as they want to try and push the game to consoles this year it is probably unlikely that we'll see any more characters added by then [maybe, MAYBE Sin IF any]. They probably went straight ahead into consumer development shortly after finalizing the arcade content.

Did they specify what quarter they were pushing for? Because, I cannot really fathom Xrd coming out sooner than winter-time. Spring is obviously a no-go since the arcade version just came out. Fall is likely taken up by P4U2 (even though it is developed by Team Blue I doubt they'd want a competition between their own games) so that leaves November 2014 (my guess) at the earliest they can get a console version out. Then again, considering many have pointed out that the new models are much easier to work with, there's a chance for a pleasant surprise.

[SolxBaiken]

They've never given a specific window other than "2014".

P4U2 will probably release late Spring/early Summer so I think late Fall/early Winter is feasible for Xrd. But yeah, either way, if they really want to keep to any time in 2014 it will be best not to divide time and resources.

[Dandy J]

they need to get that random shit out of the game.

what is this brawl? dash>TRIP LOLWHOOPS RANDOM FOR THE WIN

years of random stun and now people are complaining? danger time even affects both players equally

[syzm]

Did they specify what quarter they were pushing for? Because, I cannot really fathom Xrd coming out sooner than winter-time. Spring is obviously a no-go since the arcade version just came out. Fall is likely taken up by P4U2 (even though it is developed by Team Blue I doubt they'd want a competition between their own games) so that leaves November 2014 (my guess) at the earliest they can get a console version out. Then again, considering many have pointed out that the new models are much easier to work with, there's a chance for a pleasant surprise.

Although without trying too hard to sound characteristically cynical, the new models being easier to work with isn't necessarily conducive with maximizing profit.

Ramlethal is obviously the lynchpin of whatever narrative they're spinning, and while it's still a little magnanimous on their part to make her playable right away, it's still reasonable enough for her to show up. But beyond her I'm not sure that there's anybody else critical enough to warrant being released now as opposed to being saved for a sequel.

I'm expecting the iterative process of Xrd to be pretty close to the original series. Lets them release a few games where a portion of the work will just be Unreal Engine-ing the rest of their past characters.

[Casper]

http://youtu.be/c5RA8qFsm74?t=59m9s

anyone know who the venom player featured throughout this video is? i think he is very good. excellent spacing. nice to see a slightly different approach to xrd venom than heven's. maybe its fino?

Edited March 16, 2014 by Casper

[Ronove]

http://youtu.be/c5RA8qFsm74?t=59m9s

anyone know who the venom player featured throughout this video is? i think he is very good. excellent spacing. nice to see a slightly different approach to xrd venom than heven's. maybe its fino?

The arcade where they're playing is located in Fukuoka so I doubt it's Fiino.

The name of the player shown on the vid says Seigi Shikkakusha 'Isamu'. So his nickname is Isamu.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Ronove

[Lynxfort]

A general question about ASW and i hope that Blazblue guys don't feel offended ..

o.k...im not a BB player but i have lot friends playing it and watching top players matches..According to my friends tiers matter so much in BB..lets say more than GG AC

Now if that was true..

ASW who did GG who did also BB... so why the matter off balance is causing more problems in BB though (from what i heard) it system it easier than GG??

Is it ..the more complicated the game ..the more balanced could be ??..

my concern is that i fear that Xrd will be the same of other new games (Easier game play ..dominating tiers)

(sorry for my bad english)

Edited March 16, 2014 by Lynxfort

[D.R.F.]

I would say it's less that GG is in and of itself balanced, and more that it's simultaneously more rewarding of good play and more harsh on player failures than most other games. Even weak characters, like Potemkin currently is, can capitalize off of hits and knockdowns in ways characters in other games struggle to, and for potentially higher rewards at that.

Basically, in terms of character balance, GG has always been busted (and Xrd will turn out no differently), it just compensates for that by having a metagame that rewards player skill to a greater extent than many other games do.

I think this explains it pretty well, That it is not gg's actual cast that is balanced but that the game mechanics are set so that ANYONE can win (negative penalty, guard bar, generic mixup, dead angle to escape pressure, etc.) For the most part, bb is a completely different game and although shares some generally same mechanics, the different flaws in each character are shown more notably. The drive mechanic makes it so that some characters (makoto, button charge) will always have a poor time fighting something like mu (space control tools).its not to say the game is horridly unbalanced, because it isn't that bad, but the drive mechanic can put some characters immediately on top (hazama) with a couple of extra tools while taking away others will straight neuter another character becauseof their drive's simplicity or overall usefulness (Tsubaki)

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Edited March 16, 2014 by FenrirHades`81

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

GG and BB are so different fundamentally that you can't simply classify it as a matter of easier game = less balanced. Even though Xrd has been somewhat simplified, the core of the game is still GG, and you can see that by how older, more experienced players are dominating right now. BB's issues are partly due to the core system and partly due to character designs which have no business being in said system.

[Maho]

A lot of the balance problems with BB are due to the fact that in this game, there are characters with a gameplay archetype pushed to the extreme, and that obviously will create bad matchups. Another thing is that nowadays, people start to whine about a character way faster and cry a lot more when something is too strong, so you hear a lot more about balance problems.

GG had dominating characters in every version, some like #R Eddie were more dominating that any of the BB tops have ever been, but the community was kinda more tolerant to this.

Now for Xrd we'll have to wait and see, but I'm pretty sure we'll hear a lot about balance with how players are nowadays, you can already see people asking for Zato nerfs...

[BladeOfJustice7]

Now for Xrd we'll have to wait and see, but I'm pretty sure we'll hear a lot about balance with how players are nowadays, you can already see people asking for Zato nerfs...

I blame the internet...

No really I do, increased accessibility along with increased modes of communication. Allows everyone to see what's cheap in a game faster than when we were all younger where that wasn't so much the case. So now EVERY would-be Zato player, in this instance will have access to Ogawa's tools and tricks with Zato as opposed to maybe one or two matches that were recorded. Now everyone knows how cheap Zato-1 was, when I was playing #R casually I didn't know anything about the tiering of GG#R honestly. But now anyone picking up a new fighting game can get full access to what's what in a game from the get go. Equally players can see what's cheap and complain about it early.

Of course with the internet, players can also get help from vets easier and have ways of overcoming the the difficulty hurdle associated to learning a new fighting game, tutorials game forums and etc. So now we have more players at a more homogeneous skill level (in theory at least), and less players quitting a game (in theory) because they have all the tools they need to improve right before them.

So it's a give and take.

I only really complain about stop playing a game when my character is no longer fun. And honestly no one said anything about Zato until Ogawa the Overlord started playing lol. Prior to that, if I remember correctly people thought he wasn't going to be that strong, and everyone was worried about Faust mirror dominating the game. There are few who really make a character truly shine, I doubt we'll see much people both in Japan or NA achieve that level of showing how cheap Zato1 or any character truly is.

[Henaki]

People always quit due to perceived imbalance and frustration. The internet just gives people a place to say why they quit.

[youcanwonder]

I like the fact they are not balanced...When a low tier char beats a higher tier char makes u realize it's all in how u play the game...might take more patience but u know u can do it.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yeah but to get to that skill level takes time, people in modern society always want immediate results. If they don't get results when they want it then they feel the game must be changed, not that their mentality should be changed.

[50-50罠]

Yeah but to get to that skill level takes time, people in modern society always want immediate results. If they don't get results when they want it then they feel the game must be changed, not that their mentality should be changed.

Every player goes through this. Its a phase in the mentality of players normally when their fundamentals are not strong and they don't understand the levels to being a top player. Frustration is a natural part of growth you have to go through the struggle if you want to be good.

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Edited March 16, 2014 by 50-50罠

[Alpha152]

So I've noticed on 2 separate occasions of people RC'ing a move where it should've been a YRC instead. Possibly a glitch or is there some other explanation for this?

http://youtu.be/vjuZ-FUVoz4?t=5m49s

http://youtu.be/M5n-pss_eGI?t=50s

[Henaki]

They're probably in the tail end of hitstun, or maybe part of OTG state qualifies as hitstun.

[Ronove]

First one could be due to gunflame's hitbox actually reaching I-No's hitbox on the ground (very unlikely though), but the second one I can't really make any sense out of it. I mean, supposing that the move was RC'd out of the YRC window it should be a purple RC rather than a red RC...

They're probably in the tail end of hitstun, or maybe part of OTG state qualifies as hitstun.

this actually makes sense, in both cases the opponents are OTG when the red RC occurs.

[jak d ripr]

Yeah but to get to that skill level takes time, people in modern society always want immediate results. If they don't get results when they want it then they feel the game must be changed, not that their mentality should be changed.

I don't think people have really changed, it's just that now people have a place to complain when they suck at a game unlike before.

On a separate note, anyone know when the next update is? I wanna see some valentine gameplay.

[king of heart]

So now EVERY would-be Zato player, in this i I doubt we'll see much people both in Japan or NA achieve that level of showing how cheap Zato1 or any character truly is.

Could you please stop using the word "Cheap"!

He might be too strong but that's the reward for people who spent months and years learning him.

He is not a character that you can pick and learn in a couple of weeks like Ky.

Saying cheap is like anyone can pick him and win easily.

Also he is not as strong as AC Eddie IMO which had bad matchups with lower tier characters like I-No and even match up with many others.

[Xtra_Zero]

A lot of the balance problems with BB are due to the fact that in this game, there are characters with a gameplay archetype pushed to the extreme, and that obviously will create bad matchups.

This. This was why CT was unbalanced but still fun, and why CS and CS2 were more "balanced" but boring. CT had some of the most ridiculous matchups, even worse than #R Eddie. Almost like Super Turbo where there were just some matchups you didn't play, but characters still did high damage and so could still take matches off an early read even in the bad ones. Then CS and successive revisions came and nerfed everyone's damage, calling that balance, which just made it take longer for people to lose the same matchups, and made it less likely to keep your momentum if you happened to get an early read in a bad matchup.

[Destin]

Decreasing damage is the same as increasing the number of matches. It exacerbates the apparent difference in tiers, its harder to take a 3/5 match in an 2-8 matchup than a 2/3 ect.

Eddie is way way way easier I think than you are making him out to be king of heart. And ky is more difficult to play at high high level than people seem to think. I find eddie to be the easier of the two by a margin, he just takes more training mode time. The only character in GGXX's history that I could have ever considered to be pick up and play was AC pote...

[Circuitous]

The only character in GGXX's history that I could have ever considered to be pick up and play was AC pote...

Pffffft.

[Henaki]

Decreasing damage isn't exactly analogous to increasing the number of rounds. It strongly depends on how powerful snowballing is. In the case of BB, because it takes a lot longer to force an enemy into a disadvantageous position (because there's way less advantage granted to the person who knocks another down, the corners are further away), it exasperates the issue since you're making more neutral decisions. it does increase the amount of interactions and decision trees, which is why matchups are bad (the other person's wheel of options is statistically more likely to end in a favoriable situation than another characters), so the more you increase the odds of those "good wheels' showing up, the more likely a character is going to show their statistical power.

To simplify: A 6/4 matchup will mean a character will win 60% of the time due to a larger sample size. If you have a small sample size of dicerolls out of 10. Say, 2. Getting 1-4 instead of 5-10 is statistically still going to happen over a long period of time, but in very small sampling, Tager ca say, beat Carl due to some dumb luck/very good reads.

This is why Marvel 3 is played in a 3/5 set, btw. You can lose in a single big mistake, which means two mistakes (that aren't always mistakes), can cost you a tournament match. High risk high reward guesses become more powerful because they can take entire games off what is essentially a diceroll, making the game more random.

Decreasing the damage can increase the sample size, but it is very dependent on why a character is better. if it's because they can win in one combo, decreasing the damage actually increases the odds of a character that can't win in one combo, but two, assuming they can still do it in two after the damage decrease.

Bad oversimplification: Let's say Ken does 1000 damage off a c.Lp, but Ryu does 900. If you increase the health to 1800. Suddenly the match is "even" in this one comparison because they both effectively kill in two combos.

/guy who thinks too much about fighting games

Edited March 17, 2014 by Henaki