TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seriously. If you don't like that your character is weak, don't play them. That, to me, is a stronger statement to developers that the character needs to be buffed. It will also more than likely increase your enjoyment of the game. But unless a character is seriously overpowered to the point that everyone agrees they're too strong, don't call for nerfs.
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 imo i don't care too much about Azrael buffs, because the current buffs don't seem to buff his neutral at all. He will still struggle trying to catch characters with very good neutral like Mu, Hazama, Hakumen and maybe Tao and Valk as well while staying the same for the rest
HoudiniJr100 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seriously. If you don't like that your character is weak, don't play them. That, to me, is a stronger statement to developers that the character needs to be buffed. It will also more than likely increase your enjoyment of the game. But unless a character is seriously overpowered to the point that everyone agrees they're too strong, don't call for nerfs. take CS1 Bang for example, he got nerfed to the floor in CS2, but got back up in extend and CP. Kind of an example on what you guys were talking about I think. Just give him more nerfs and no buffs whatsoever, :P
Rishtopher Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 If you don't like that your character is weak, don't play them. I don't think we need to go quite that far. You're basically removing them from the game at that point lol. I get what you mean about 'making a statement' but it kind of sounds like a "Love it or leave it" situation, which isn't ever good. If the community reaches a consensus that X character is weak, talk about it and the devs will listen (eventually...). In other news, I'm happy with the Amane buffs I've read. Hopefully he'll be able to do even better against the higher tiered characters now.
Errol Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Seriously. If you don't like that your character is weak, don't play them. That, to me, is a stronger statement to developers that the character needs to be buffed. It will also more than likely increase your enjoyment of the game. But unless a character is seriously overpowered to the point that everyone agrees they're too strong, don't call for nerfs. Yeah, this is it. Also, these changes are just minor tweaks. They had a year to figure out characters were weak and buff them, and they didn't. So swap chars. I don't know who would've guessed Makoto would be nerfed. ha.
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 I don't know who would've guessed Makoto would be nerfed. ha. Because Goro was too good with her
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 But Relius got nothing but buffs, and RYO. I mean, does anything else need to be said? xD
Dark Ranger88 Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 The only problem I have with Azrael is his backdash. If you already have a DP you don't also need the best backdash in the game, with very little recovery making it very difficult to punish. Having to worry about rolls, quick wakeup, growler, and backdash make midscreen oki a hella diffcult guessing game because the combination of growler and backdash beat most of my options. If they made his backdash have more recovery or more distance so that it was just a means of escape rather than: Dodge their oki attempt > counterattack with Gustav/Jacket Kick, then it'd be okay. But again Makoto and Izayoi are cabbage and I'd much rather them be buffed than to have Azrael (or anyone else for that matter) nerfed. Just make every character ridiculous and fun. Also if a Makoto out there has a way to deal with all of Azrael's options on wakeup, please educate me.
redsilversnake Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Azrael isn't even my main and I think nerfing him would be unnecessary. It just doesn't make sense. The only reasons someone would want him nerfed is that either they're salty about losing to him, or they for some reason think that there is only a certain level of acceptable strong stuff a character can have, regardless of whether or not their design balances out their strengths. Since I'd rather not accuse someone of being a whiner without evidence, the only possibility I can see is the latter, which is why I ask; do you really want every character to play the same? Because when you start balancing out characters that way, that's what will happen, whether you want that or not. If that's the only possibility you can see, you're very narrow-minded. Calling for a character to get certain nerfs in no way equates to desiring a homogenous cast. Also feel like pointing out backdash is only good for getting out of safe jump mid-screen, which is already a meh option in BB due to tech rolls anyway. No, Azrael can BD safe jumps in the corner too. When I played Bullet, that was one the reasons he was such a frustrating character to fight.
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 So you're using bullet, a character that has a tough time against many cast members, as a basis for nerfing Azrael?
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 So you're using bullet, a character that has a tough time against many cast members, as a basis for nerfing Azrael? This is not even the funny part tbh. Ok, so you did a J.C safe jump with Bullet in the corner and Azrael backdashed out of it. With his back against the corner. Alright, you landed and can do whatever you want while he is stuck in his backdash animation. You can easily confirm he didn't DP and quite literally MASH 2A to hit him out of the recovery from his backdash. No, seriously.
Maho Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 No, Azrael can BD safe jumps in the corner too. When I played Bullet, that was one the reasons he was such a frustrating character to fight. Could you tell us what's your safejump setup? Azrael backdash is 26F long, you say that you don't have anything that's fast enough to punish that after a safejump with Bullet? What does she have, a +20f 5A?
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Actually trying to go into offence against him felt suicidal for most of characters that i played, because his defence is suprisingly good His backdash is very good He has a dp and it can be used on reaction to stuff some setups that uses projectiles He can just jump and chicken block or if you were trying to safejump him and he didn't go for a backdash or dp, then you have to deal with his his AA 5a ,5b nonsense and risk getting stuck into his close range
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 isnt he like A or B tier then who cares To be fair, Jin and Hakumen were considered A tier to some people and they got nerfs
STenSatsu Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Not to mention that backdashes seem universally changed from the system notes. Considering how good Azrael's backdash is, that may be a fairly big change. I'm more worried about Tao, Litchi, and Rachel honestly. They seem hardly touched as far as strength goes.
mAc Chaos Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 To be fair, Jin and Hakumen were considered A tier to some people and they got nerfs i wouldnt nerf anyone but the top top tiers and then worry about the rest later
Lucalibur Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 isnt he like A or B tier then who cares People that can't deal with characters that have anything even remotely different from the run of the mill universal options!
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 i wouldnt nerf anyone but the top top tiers and then worry about the rest later Personally i agree with you but they did change some things to make the game feel more fresh
redsilversnake Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Are you sure? 2A was my go-to move after j.C (I never got around to testing if anyone could mash out of 2B), and it didn't work. And from that description, the 5B I followed up with should also have caught him, but I'm pretty sure I got 5A'd most of the time until I found out you could beat it with j.D or airdash j.C.
natearistata Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 A tier. And setting up oki that bodies growler's hilariously shitty hitbox is beyond easy, and from there it's just figuring out your options if they backdash instead of growler. Welcome to wake-up, a lot of the times it's a guess with a decent amount of risk involved, and expecting to be given your offense for free instead of having to put some thought into it is absurd. It's not a single player game. If you do want that game, pick Valkenhayn. His backdash is certainly extremely good, but arguing about that when we're sitting on a change that literally says 'backdash distances and invul times adjusted' that could mean anything is ridiculous. For all we know they already nerfed his backdash and you're all complaining about nothing (there's a new event)
NecroTheReaper Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Jin didn't really get nerfed though. They made one character specific (I think?) combo path a bit more difficult, and everything else was just an "its there" kinda thing.
TD Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Could you tell us what's your safejump setup? Azrael backdash is 26F long, you say that you don't have anything that's fast enough to punish that after a safejump with Bullet? What does she have, a +20f 5A? luca said it, its the jc one which OS all dps and if one isnt input its just an overhead into pressure. dont want to be the third (more now as i've been massively ninja'd) one to say this situation should have been looked into more before using it as a basis for the argument at hand. no long post today, just tl;dring, azrael is completely viable and with a set of powerful moves and glaring weaknesses. also he still struggles plenty against zoners. growler, nor his backdash are as unpunishable as they seem. growler in particular should not be looked at as an end-all to zoning attempts.
bakahyl Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 Jin didn't really get nerfed though. They made one character specific (I think?) combo path a bit more difficult, and everything else was just an "its there" kinda thing. Aside from changing the hitstun on his air C normals when hitting grounded people? It could mean his j.2c will not safely combo when being too high (iirc wasn't this the case for his CSE counterpart?)
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