Appledash- Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I dunno, but it's actually kindof an interesting idea to: A) Return Hakumen's counters to Extend status. B) Have them cost 1 star to use C) Have them give TWO stars on hit (So the same net amount of stars as normal.) I actually kinda like this idea. It adds another layer to using his counter system, increases risk/reward. Sure no one else has to pay meter just to use their own drive, but no one else's meter just fills up on its own.
Lucalibur Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Oh god guys pls no. Just bring his counters back to CSE status but keep J.D followup-able and keep the new Emma follow up the same. I know it's mostly messing around from the Haku player's part but it ain't on Airk's.
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Yes I'm joking lol I just want Haku to go back to csex all together. This Haku isn't bad but I like and enjoy ex Haku a ton more. PS: I would never want to pay for his drive... That would be madness...
Tsukahara Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Do we HAVE to play this game again? Look at other character's frame data. NO ONE has a bunch of moves that are still plus on IB that don't have tons of startup. This is how the game works. Terumi is no worse than anyone else - better, than most IMHO, 5B being +2 is huge - in this regard. Having to find some way to catch your opponent napping is pretty much how BB is supposed to be played, notwithstanding a few characters whose gimmicks allow them to play it differently. Does he maybe need some minor tweaks? Sure. Is he anywhere even close to first in line for tweaking? Nope. Has Arcsys ever done 'minor tweaks' to characters in a balance update? Certainly not for THIS game. Sorry I should have been more clear with that line. The point I was trying to make wasn't that the normals were bad, 5b, and 2a are good, but they don't do anything for the character design of Terumi. You can stagger pressure with them, but they don't lead to anything against anyone that has experience against the character. You can't jump cancel them, you can't dash cancel them (may need to double check dash speed after 2a, I haven't taken him into training lately) and any dash to throw mixup, jump, or command throw is so slow that being +2 doesn't change anything.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Ok, i know Mac is talkin shit, but not sure if srs here. He's being sarcastic. I dunno, but it's actually kindof an interesting idea to: A) Return Hakumen's counters to Extend status. B) Have them cost 1 star to use C) Have them give TWO stars on hit (So the same net amount of stars as normal.) None of that, just bring them back to their csex status.
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Bring them back to Extend status, BUT make them vulnerable for the first frame. That way you can't just mash counters on wakeup all day, you'd need 50% meter for Yukikaze like Tager does for 720. To use his meterless counters you would have to react to something or know the gaps in your opponent's blockstrings.
Eshi Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 He doesn't really need many overheads since it isn't how his pressure game works.Yup, that's exactly what I meant. I agree with giving 5C/6C a bit less recovery. Enough to still be punishable with a bad read, but not enough that he immediately dies for guessing the wrong hit confirm. I'm okay with supers overheating drills, it makes the 632146C RC bug to get around disabling drill much more swag =3 Good post!
Lucalibur Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Bring them back to Extend status, BUT make them vulnerable for the first frame. No. 5D being 5F is enough.
Airk Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 No. 5D being 5F is enough. What about if 2D ONLY caught lows, so that you actually kinda had to guess on wakeup? Note: I'm not trying to get Hakumen's counters nerfed. Hakumen needs nerfs, but it's mostly the incredibly idiotic amounts of damage he does. (Remind me again why his special moves are all insanely good and ignore combo rate?) But mostly I just like saying "What do you think about idea X?"
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Remind me again why his special moves are all insanely good and ignore combo rate? Not an answer per say but I assume it has to do with the fact that he only has but so many special moves and if your combo goes on for more then five seconds you will probably use at least one special move twice. In which case you get hit with SMP and the opponent WILL pop out of your combo unless you end it fast. (I guess... lol) Also I do agree that his damage output is bonkers and should probably be toned down.
Justice7541 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hakumen is basically just Terumi with counters, the meter mechanic just isn't as obvious cause it's stars instead of actual meter. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Dazardz Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Hakumen is basically just Terumi with counters, the meter mechanic just isn't as obvious cause it's stars instead of actual meter. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk And with some retarded damage. :/ But I'm totally with the idea of changing his drive. Mash 2D during blockstring to get a free counter... I have to use my brain against this character, using my brain in a fighting game is not fair Edited January 31, 2014 by Dazardz
Airk Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hakumen is basically just Terumi with counters, the meter mechanic just isn't as obvious cause it's stars instead of actual meter. Uh, no? Hakumen has many things that make his game method BETTER than Terumi's and additionally, unlike Terumi, ALL his special moves require meter, not just a "big selection of super moves". Not an answer per say but I assume it has to do with the fact that he only has but so many special moves and if your combo goes on for more then five seconds you will probably use at least one special move twice. In which case you get hit with SMP and the opponent WILL pop out of your combo unless you end it fast. (I guess... lol) Also I do agree that his damage output is bonkers and should probably be toned down. And sorry, but saying "Hakumen doesn't have that many specials" (what? He has 7. Jin only has 6 - 8 if you count D versions as different moves. Rachel only has 6 if you count her two different 'lotus' moves as different.) - Hakumen has a completely average number of specials. And ignoring that entirely, he gets 3-4k off combos that last about 2 seconds. Anything that can lead into Zantetsu basically picks up 2k damage instantly. That's just not right.
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 And sorry, but saying "Hakumen doesn't have that many specials" Hakumen has a completely average number of specials. And ignoring that entirely, he gets 3-4k off combos that last about 2 seconds. Anything that can lead into Zantetsu basically picks up 2k damage instantly. That's just not right. Again, I agree with all comments about his damage. And zan does lead into big damage for zero effort. What I mean by "only has so many" is that in combos you don't have a lot you can do between the special moves so you will get hit with SMP a lot faster then most characters that can use normal moves or something between their special moves like Mu-12 so their combos last longer. Again that doesn't mean I think that because his combos are short they should do 4~9k cause I don't... I think he needs a damage reduction.
Lucalibur Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hakumen needs LESS damage and MORE options. That is all.
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Hakumen needs LESS damage and MORE options. That is all. I think he has a good amount of options. He has moves that allow him to overcome his lack of ground movement, he has moves that allow him to change his momentum mid-air and because he gains meter so fast he has access to ca, ct, and rc pretty often. The only thing I really think they should give hakumen, if anything is just return hotaru back to the way it was in ex. The float on it causes it to lose a lot a usability that I don't think it really needed to. Also make zantetsu prorate pretty hard if it isn't the first hit.
Lucalibur Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I would trade his current damage for old Hotaru, 2B and counters back without any hesitation. I think the damage can easily be fixed by having combo rate apply to most of his specials again tbh.
xlolxlolx Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 keep it up boys this thread is really entertaining
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I would trade his current damage for old Hotaru, 2B and counters back without any hesitation. I think the damage can easily be fixed by having combo rate apply to most of his specials again tbh. ^ This. Also can we make tsubaki slide again...? I miss the combos off of hop tsubaki in the corner...
Lucalibur Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 ^ This. Also can we make tsubaki slide again...? I miss the combos off of hop tsubaki in the corner... Tsubaki slide was da best. I miss the old IAD combos mid-screen out of that thing. I would also enjoy 3C not being as negative as a DP on block again but maybe that would be asking too much, specially with the startup buff it got in CP.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 His new combos routes/theory is about the only thing i like(d) about him. Everything else about him in this incarnation is boring, one dimensional, brain dead, and most of all boring.
CrisisEdge Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 His new combos routes/theory is about the only thing i like(d) about him. Everything else about him in this incarnation is boring, one dimensional, brain dead, and most of all boring. Yeah I agree. This is why I hardly bother practicing things with him, which shows negatively in my play. It's also why I've been playing with Tao the past week so I can use someone that needs more thought put into them and not just mash 3c or air dash>air grab>od>9k. Hope they do more than reduce damage and return him at least closer to the state he was in during ex.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 That's true, I rarely find myself practicing Hakumen because there's not much I need to know. Only thing I really had to grind was his new combo route, once that was done, it was game over.
Moblin Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) It's true that my gameplan with Haku in this version is to get smacked around a little and then OD back into the game with a lucky read/mistake by my opponent. Reduce his damage, make him a more versatile character again. I miss old hotaru, but what is the main difference between this 2b and old 2b? edit: People are still discovering neat little tricks with Hakumen. The problem is that they are made null and void by having OD combos that completely overshadow everything else that is interesting in his gameplan. To make Hakumen an interesting character, this is my current wishlist: Eliminate the current damage of his OD or make Mugen into his overdrive. Give him a little more blockstun on hop- agito so that if he has meter, he can do badass mixup. Reduce his meter gain a little bit, and bring back old Hotaru. Keep the enma follow up on his Drive because it's actually a pretty balanced call-out if his OD didn't give him 8k off of them. Edited February 1, 2014 by Moblin
Airk Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 So, basically: Nothing about Hakumen justifies his moves inexplicably breaking the rules for how much damage they do. Check.
Recommended Posts