Loli Bacon Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I don't think DP is supposed to be used as a pressure option in AH... there are much better pressure options (jump cancels+ low homing). This isn't about AH3 though, this is about BB. I see nothing wrong with Ragnas DP as it is. This is for wakeup/DP. Pressure options, just jump + 5D overhead pressure (I hate you Weiss). Again, I might have a lopsided opinion; Elfriede 5C meaties have spoiled me.
NecroTheReaper Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Nah, my list of most hated DP's in BB would still probably have ragnas at the most annoying. No new character besides Kagura has a good DP, jin's are either slow or cost meter (granted free combo on CH), Tsubaki and Makoto have hitbox issues, Haz's is a pseudo-reversal (214D~B) that only works as an anti-air most of the time. I cant remember any more so unlisted apparwbtly dont piss me off much xD
Loli Bacon Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Nah, my list of most hated DP's in BB would still probably have ragnas at the most annoying. No new character besides Kagura has a good DP, jin's are either slow or cost meter (granted free combo on CH), Tsubaki and Makoto have hitbox issues, Haz's is a pseudo-reversal (214D~B) that only works as an anti-air most of the time. I cant remember any more so unlisted apparwbtly dont piss me off much xD Super ball. :v
D.R.F. Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Well its fine the way it is so meh. It shouldn't be touched Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Justice7541 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Most reversals in BB are equally as effective, if not better without meter than ID. Now I KNOW I'm being trolled. Okay lol. So you're going to tell me that Heart's DP, a 3F reversal that loses it's hitbox for the startup (have fun stuffing it!), that can be EF Canceled or Homing Canceled to make it safe or convert, that has a follow up that sets up for okizeme and a huge fucking hitbox on the heart that covers above her really fucking well isn't as good as Ragnas DP? Sorry, I don't buy that. I've been playing AH3 for a good while Heart has an absolutely godlike DP, I'd kill for Ragna to get that shit. The only thing that would be more retarded is if it was like it was in AH1 and air DP was an overhead still. I main Heart. that move is absolute bullshit (and I love it). Kara-cancel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_F92rTawfQ) look at the fucking damage lol, you can convert from cr mk, parry OS bullshit. Back homing is a free DP bait that any character can use, and lots of characters have ways to bait or punish it with other moves. You can't EF/homing cancel the DP unless it actually hits something which means it's also easy to cross it up or blow it up in other ways. Also, get baited on a DP in AH3 = you die. So many characters have massive damage punishes that either outright kill the opponent or lead into super ambiguous oki, if they get a starter as good as a whiffed DP punish. Ragna's DP by comparison is active for days and because of the sheer size of the hitbox, lots of characters have no choice but to block it, after which means he gets a guaranteed RC and takes pressure. Also, because of the sheer amount of invul on it and is doable repeatedly in the air on clash, it beats literally every other move in the game. Edited January 30, 2014 by Justice7541
NecroTheReaper Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Superball costs 50 meter and has super flash, characters with combos that go through it are amazing to watch. Fireworks with your punish? xD but I was excluding reversal supers.
Lucalibur Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Actually I had ID lose to Terumi's Messenga once and even wrote a story about it in sheer frustration.
Nakkiel Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Now I KNOW I'm being trolled. Ragna's DP by comparison is active for days and because of the sheer size of the hitbox, lots of characters have no choice but to block it, after which means he gets a guaranteed RC and takes pressure. Also, because of the sheer amount of invul on it and is doable repeatedly in the air on clash, it beats literally every other move in the game. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Ragna's pressure is shit and it still costs 50 METER (not cheap) Hotaru was better (before CP, huge reward, + on block and jump cancelable, extremely hard to punish), Growler is strong, Tsubame is amazing and is only lacking the ability to be RC'd (it used to lead into 4K meterless LOL), Old Noel Drives were better, Kagura DP is better stay netplay, I guess.
NecroTheReaper Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I don't think I've ever seen growler beat pressure strings. Ive only ever seen it used on wakeup with any sort of success (or projectile oki) since its range is pitiful.
D.R.F. Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Jins C dp has so much invul that you can do it on wakeup if you know ID is coming and simply beat it Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Tigre Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Back homing is a free DP bait that any character can use, and lots of characters have ways to bait or punish it with other moves. You can't EF/homing cancel the DP unless it actually hits something which means it's also easy to cross it up or blow it up in other ways. Also, get baited on a DP in AH3 = you die. So many characters have massive damage punishes that either outright kill the opponent or lead into super ambiguous oki, if they get a starter as good as a whiffed DP punish. Ragna's DP by comparison is active for days and because of the sheer size of the hitbox, lots of characters have no choice but to block it, after which means he gets a guaranteed RC and takes pressure. Also, because of the sheer amount of invul on it and is doable repeatedly in the air on clash, it beats literally every other move in the game.That's not quite how it works. Back homing requires you to be blocking prior (and is not free, in meter or safety), Unless you mean Neutral 4D, in which case you're better off backdashing. If you're playing AH3 like a ground based footsies game yeah, Heart's DP isn't that great. In AH3 Heart's DP is amazing. You're gonna have a hard as fuck time crossing the DP up, means it has a huge fucking hitbox above it. Getting a good Heart or Weiss player to wiff DP isn't free. As a reversal this move is retarded.
Loli Bacon Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 That's not quite how it works. Back homing requires you to be blocking prior (and is not free, in meter or safety), Unless you mean Neutral 4D, in which case you're better off backdashing. If you're playing AH3 like a ground based footsies game yeah, Heart's DP isn't that great. In AH3 Heart's DP is amazing. You're gonna have a hard as fuck time crossing the DP up, means it has a huge fucking hitbox above it. Getting a good Heart or Weiss player to wiff DP isn't free. As a reversal this move is retarded. Fairly accurate. Those DPs are pretty dumb and you can HC into air chase for knockdown. Heart is straight up dumb, though. I still have more of a problem dealing with ID, but maybe I'm just bad. :v
Tigre Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 still have more of a problem dealing with ID, but maybe I'm just bad. :vI don't want to call anyone bad or anything but ID is a pretty run of the mill dp. It's very baitable lol
nadakaineko Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Back homing is a free DP bait that any character can use, and lots of characters have ways to bait or punish it with other moves. You can't EF/homing cancel the DP unless it actually hits something which means it's also easy to cross it up or blow it up in other ways. Also, get baited on a DP in AH3 = you die. So many characters have massive damage punishes that either outright kill the opponent or lead into super ambiguous oki, if they get a starter as good as a whiffed DP punish. Hi. So you're saying that 4D'ing in someone's face as a DP bait is a smart thing to do? That's cool. Let me know how that works for you. All considering Heart's DP hitbox, her DP and Weiss' DP are actually really good in terms of how that game is played. Heart's DP is good because you can't really meaty it, since the first hit is unclashable. Also the projectile that comes out of it is very large and people generally get hit by it unexpectedly. Considering that a lot of characters pressure can be halted by Heart/Weiss DP, that makes them pretty good for restoring momentum. Also remember that Burst is more lenient in AH3.
Airk Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Jins C dp has so much invul that you can do it on wakeup if you know ID is coming and simply beat it Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Yeah, but Jin's C DP ALSO has such a massive startup that some characters can literally whiff a meaty 5B through it and still recover in time to block. It's not very good. I too feel that sG is...incorrect when he says that most DPs in BB are as good as ID. Hell, I protest even REFERRING to Hotaru as a DP when you needed to go through 4 frames of jump startup to do it. Growler is okay. Tsubame is good but not available half the time and is not really appreciably safer than ID. If you start talking about Tsubaki/Makoto/Bullet DPs, you rapidly see that trying to say that "most" reverals don't even come close. Hirensou isn't even close and costs 25 meter. The only ones I think are comparable are Mu's and Kagura's.
Tigre Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Hi. So you're saying that 4D'ing in someone's face as a DP bait is a smart thing to do? Fuck you I do what I want
Airk Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I don't want to call anyone bad or anything but ID is a pretty run of the mill dp. It's very baitable lol I disagree. Most characters have a hard time baiting it except by blocking due to the hitbox. It will hit most characters out of their backdash. How do you suggest it be baited in a situation where RC is available?
D.R.F. Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah, but Jin's C DP ALSO has such a massive startup that some characters can literally whiff a meaty 5B through it and still recover in time to block. It's not very good. I too feel that sG is...incorrect when he says that most DPs in BB are as good as ID. Hell, I protest even REFERRING to Hotaru as a DP when you needed to go through 4 frames of jump startup to do it. Growler is okay. Tsubame is good but not available half the time and is not really appreciably safer than ID. If you start talking about Tsubaki/Makoto/Bullet DPs, you rapidly see that trying to say that "most" reverals don't even come close. Hirensou isn't even close and costs 25 meter. The only ones I think are comparable are Mu's and Kagura's. I agree with this. And about jins dp I just used as a reference I honestly hate that fucking thing. So damn slow Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Nakkiel Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah, but Jin's C DP ALSO has such a massive startup that some characters can literally whiff a meaty 5B through it and still recover in time to block. It's not very good. I too feel that sG is...incorrect when he says that most DPs in BB are as good as ID. Hell, I protest even REFERRING to Hotaru as a DP when you needed to go through 4 frames of jump startup to do it. Growler is okay. Tsubame is good but not available half the time and is not really appreciably safer than ID. If you start talking about Tsubaki/Makoto/Bullet DPs, you rapidly see that trying to say that "most" reverals don't even come close. Hirensou isn't even close and costs 25 meter. The only ones I think are comparable are Mu's and Kagura's. CS2 Makoto DP. Most =/= all Tsubame is safer than ID in almost any situation barring 50 meter.
Eshi Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 this discussion is getting kinda ridiculous, Ragna's DP is really good but it's because he has a lot of other shortcomings as a character to balance it out. It will never be nerfed. I don't really want to compare apples and oranges but Kagura's DP is objectively better and he's a much worse character.
NecroTheReaper Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Oh god how could I forgey Mu's. Kagura's is easy, if I feel like he'll go for it, I'll just IAD backwards even though it sets it back to neutral. Kagua v Relius os a fun matchup to me though, probably my favorite.
Tigre Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 How do you suggest it be baited in a situation where RC is available? Safe Jump. Block. You don't need to escape pressure imediately. Barrier. Valk has like five thousand overheads in one blockstring and we're crying because Ragna can spend half of his meter to make his DP safe?
D.R.F. Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 this discussion is getting kinda ridiculous, Ragna's DP is really good but it's because he has a lot of other shortcomings as a character to balance it out. It will never be nerfed. I don't really want to compare apples and oranges but Kagura's DP is objectively better and he's a much worse character. It really is lol and kaguras dp other than the fact you have to charge is damn good. Ragnas dp is fine, Moving on! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Dark Ranger88 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Super ball. :v How are you supposed to beat this move. Even if I know it's coming the ball still comes down on me while I'm comboing Koko. That ish should go away when she gets hit.
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