TD Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Most people who have a meaningful drive got their pretty little skulls pushed in. Went from "you have a weakness without drive" to "you mismanage this and you're fucking toast". Rachel, relius, hazama, kokonoe I guess, amane, even litchi got this treatment. People with bland drives are perfectly fine, so rush down is going to be a beast in this game. These characters except maybe kokonoe and litchi did not get enough to warrant changing the drives the way they did, I feel. Like wtf is rachel and relius supposed to do for 10 seconds at a time now. They are probably going to take a massive fall from grace.
MoneyD90 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Ah. Thanks for posting some meaningful info on resource characters. Seems like they want you guys to manage your resource better and not spam like crazy. I don't think you guys will fall too much since most of those characters still have a decent advantage when they do have resource. However, I do agree that things between resource and rush down characters will be much closer now.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 See, this is why Hakumen will forever be the best character in the game :V
bakahyl Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Most people who have a meaningful drive got their pretty little skulls pushed in. Went from "you have a weakness without drive" to "you mismanage this and you're fucking toast". Rachel, relius, hazama, kokonoe I guess, amane, even litchi got this treatment. People with bland drives are perfectly fine, so rush down is going to be a beast in this game. These characters except maybe kokonoe and litchi did not get enough to warrant changing the drives the way they did, I feel. Like wtf is rachel and relius supposed to do for 10 seconds at a time now. They are probably going to take a massive fall from grace. Â Well same thing happend to Valkenhayn in 1.1 , but he apparently got some buffs in 2.0 to compensate that
Myoro Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Eh I don't know if he was s tier but Carl could certainly hold his own once he got the foe in his clutches, without unblockables even though they were still prevalent. Even still the devs have not fixed any of Carl's glaring weaknesses, and good Carl players are things of legend (or slightly rare in Japan). I think he lost the in unblocks and is just a mixup character now, or they just got more gimmicky. I don't think he's going to be too bad but then again, all his problem characters got nerfed soooo....... Â While it may be true 2D is slowed down, 4D and 3D (alledgedly) still hit low and are fast. He should still have unblockables if this is the case. As for the legitimacy of said unblockables, I couldn't tell you, I am now, as I have always been, not a Carl player. I think New Fuoco is gonna help his neutral and doll movement quite a bit, so that's one weakness fixed. Â Â Most people who have a meaningful drive got their pretty little skulls pushed in. Went from "you have a weakness without drive" to "you mismanage this and you're fucking toast". Rachel, relius, hazama, kokonoe I guess, amane, even litchi got this treatment. People with bland drives are perfectly fine, so rush down is going to be a beast in this game. These characters except maybe kokonoe and litchi did not get enough to warrant changing the drives the way they did, I feel. Like wtf is rachel and relius supposed to do for 10 seconds at a time now. They are probably going to take a massive fall from grace. Â Relius isn't really too hurt by all of this. He did lose his ability to solo combo with 6B, but he still retains the ability to deal nearly 4K solo with meter, and 3.2K off of air hits and counter-hit C moves. 6B is now head invuln at a certain point, and just having a complementary anti air to our now jump cancele-able on block 2C is gonna be huge for Relius' defense. Â TBH 6B combos only happened off of point blank 5B and falling air normals, unless you're trying explicitly to do them, 6B combos were fairly uncommon to begin with. It's very common for a Relius to get 50% meter before he loses access to Ignis, which in turn makes him a damage threat, even when she's not out. I don't think Rel will even drop a tier unless everyone else becomes leagues more powerful than they were in 1.1, but as I don't have my hands on him that's just speculation. Â Unlike Rachel and Valk, Relius' Ignis' regen didn't take a hit, so it takes like 4~8 seconds depending on what state Ignis was in when she left. Â Rachel may actually have to zone her opponent while she gets wind. It's gonna be interesting seeing her gameplay evolve beyond "block 5 fuzzies in a row or I get my wind back and we start over." Â One way to solve this stuff is to make sure you don't run out of resources, and to that end I've made a myriad of combos that take only take 1~1.3K Ignis, but deal 3.6~4K damage. What Relius lost in solo confirms, he gained twofold in low cost combos. The addition of Id Zein and 2C jump cancel is gonna bump his damage up considerably, while remaining cost effective. Â On the bright side we both got new gimmicks in lightening bats and sandwiches. And knowing the characters we play these are gonna turn out crazy good in the long run.
chzchan Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Most people who have a meaningful drive got their pretty little skulls pushed in. Went from "you have a weakness without drive" to "you mismanage this and you're fucking toast". Rachel, relius, hazama, kokonoe I guess, amane, even litchi got this treatment. People with bland drives are perfectly fine, so rush down is going to be a beast in this game. These characters except maybe kokonoe and litchi did not get enough to warrant changing the drives the way they did, I feel. Like wtf is rachel and relius supposed to do for 10 seconds at a time now. They are probably going to take a massive fall from grace. Â That's really funny because the exact opposite is happening to Tsubaki. Her changes made her less reliant on her Drive resources in order to have a chance during a round, at least for damage. I guess her Drive isn't really considered "meaningful" though.
Airk Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 That's really funny because the exact opposite is happening to Tsubaki. Her changes made her less reliant on her Drive resources in order to have a chance during a round, at least for damage. I guess her Drive isn't really considered "meaningful" though.  Yeah, it's pretty weird. I'm honestly not sure what her drive is supposed to be for now, since it still doesn't seem to be useful in neutral, and the damage it adds is tiny.
StylisH Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I see a lot of people talking about maybe switching characters. Not really a good sign. Valk seems better now, which means I'm gonna hate it, at least. Â Now we're talking....
White Man Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 So basically, ASW once again decided that instead of further refining and building upon previous changes, they were just going to completely rework a bunch of stuff from scratch and hope it all works out in the end. This company rebalances their games the same way women decorate. "Finally, the dining room is aaaalmost perfect... Okay, time to get all new furniture and change literally everything!"
Dreiko Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Arcsys fixed a lot of things a lot of people complained about (Gravitons, Hazama's drive, Makoto's...everything,) but of course the people who didn't complain will take these changes as needless changes that didn't need to happen or even worse, if it was done to your main, it'll be taken as the game "being bad now". This all can't be helped. There's too much bias to what pretty much everyone says here to reach any one definitive conclusion regarding if this version is better or worse for the game as a whole so nobody should ask this question cause all we'll have is hyper-biased people disagreeing for a few pages and nothing gained from it. Â Â I personally like this game a lot, I like a lot of the changes. Izayoi needed a good defensive option and a damage nerf, Makoto needed to be able to do stuff, Kokonoe was stupid, Rachel's wind overheads were too strong, Hazama is already super good up close, he doesn't need to zone like a god on TOP of this, Bang I was already happy with but he got better and who doesn't like his main being better. Short starter combo time is overall increased and barrier gauge drains faster, both of which are things that please me. Â Â I expect lots of this to be not exactly agreeable with various people so I won't pretend I'm answering if CP2 is "better" or not and I'll just reiterate that I personally like it more. In the end, you will try the game when it is out and you will form your own personal view so just wait until that time to form an opinion if you can't already do so from watching vids. Asking us is not gonna help you much. :p
TD Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 While it may be true 2D is slowed down, 4D and 3D (alledgedly) still hit low and are fast. He should still have unblockables if this is the case. As for the legitimacy of said unblockables, I couldn't tell you, I am now, as I have always been, not a Carl player. I think New Fuoco is gonna help his neutral and doll movement quite a bit, so that's one weakness fixed. Â Â Â Relius isn't really too hurt by all of this. He did lose his ability to solo combo with 6B, but he still retains the ability to deal nearly 4K solo with meter, and 3.2K off of air hits and counter-hit C moves. 6B is now head invuln at a certain point, and just having a complementary anti air to our now jump cancele-able on block 2C is gonna be huge for Relius' defense. Â TBH 6B combos only happened off of point blank 5B and falling air normals, unless you're trying explicitly to do them, 6B combos were fairly uncommon to begin with. It's very common for a Relius to get 50% meter before he loses access to Ignis, which in turn makes him a damage threat, even when she's not out. I don't think Rel will even drop a tier unless everyone else becomes leagues more powerful than they were in 1.1, but as I don't have my hands on him that's just speculation. Â Unlike Rachel and Valk, Relius' Ignis' regen didn't take a hit, so it takes like 4~8 seconds depending on what state Ignis was in when she left. Â Rachel may actually have to zone her opponent while she gets wind. It's gonna be interesting seeing her gameplay evolve beyond "block 5 fuzzies in a row or I get my wind back and we start over." Â One way to solve this stuff is to make sure you don't run out of resources, and to that end I've made a myriad of combos that take only take 1~1.3K Ignis, but deal 3.6~4K damage. What Relius lost in solo confirms, he gained twofold in low cost combos. The addition of Id Zein and 2C jump cancel is gonna bump his damage up considerably, while remaining cost effective. Â On the bright side we both got new gimmicks in lightening bats and sandwiches. And knowing the characters we play these are gonna turn out crazy good in the long run. I thought something changes regarding ignis regen? If not then yeah relius is still going to be really solid still. I'd love to be wrong about the ignis thing. Fro what I was in a few videos it looked like her meter was going really slow on red. The only problem with rachel is that wind regen. But maybe it isn't too bad, once she uses a wind though she is very likely not to reach 4 winds again without overdrive or getting caught in a few combo videos. Her IOH was nerfed and sort of buffed. Honestly all her nerfs and buff helped her but that regen nerf at least in my opinion is going to hurt her a lot, and her stuff doesn't really contribute to saving wind. I suppose 236c will aid her greatly in zoning, and new bat lightning should do something as well. Not necessarily on offense will she be bad. More in the nature that she will become even more unforgiving for making a mistake.
Errol Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 New rachel definitely feels a couple notches more difficult. confirming got bumped up another notch in difficulty, and tightness of combos, gotta do things exactly right to get oki, don't fuck up. Â Burn your wnd and you can be really fucked. Â New 6A hurts. Â It's pretty good still but I don't think it's one of the top of class antiairs anymore.
Dreiko Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Rachel Azrael Hazama and Litchi specifically all seem similarly affected. They dominated, now they still seem strong but simply less dominant. They lost stuff and retained other stuff while also gaining useful new things. They certainly don't seem bad in any case, at least to me. Â To have misgivings or complaints or negative feelings about a dominant char being less dominant but still good in a new version seems...not realistic to me. What did you think would happen? Did you think the top chars would get even more buffs or what? The only exception in this seems to be Valk who got his old wjA back though his wolf meter is still weakened from the effects of 1.1 changes so he's still nowhere near as good as in cp1.0. When you think about it realistically, you should be grateful they're not all as nerfed as Kokonoe and Mu seem to be (or, you know, Tager/Kagura tier or something).
White Man Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I expect lots of this to be not exactly agreeable with various people so I won't pretend I'm answering if CP2 is "better" or not and I'll just reiterate that I personally like it more. In the end, you will try the game when it is out and you will form your own personal view so just wait until that time to form an opinion if you can't already do so from watching vids. Asking us is not gonna help you much. :p  I wouldn't let other people's opinions of a game influence my own anyway. I was just curious if there was a general consensus regarding whether or not ASW met players' expectations with this update. This community is about as close as I can get to talking with Japanese arcade regulars.
TD Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Well if people wanted an honest game, they got it. At least until número uno appears in the tier list and everyone complains about that char.
Dreiko Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I wouldn't let other people's opinions of a game influence my own anyway. I was just curious if there was a general consensus regarding whether or not ASW met players' expectations with this update. This community is about as close as I can get to talking with Japanese arcade regulars. Sadly, what you'll get when you ask this is flimsy biased excuses passing for legitimate reasons or people blatantly admitting "my main/chars I like/chars I thought deserved buffs got better and chars I dislike/thought needed nerfs/had issues with got worse so I like this more" like I am. I understand where you're coming from but I don't think you can get much from asking this sadly. I mean, I myself think everything I wrote above is 100% correct and thus the game will be awesome but there's gonna be dozens who disagree with me about many (or maybe ALL) of my points. Consensus about this kinda thing is...hard to reach :P.   Well if people wanted an honest game, they got it. At least until número uno appears in the tier list and everyone complains about that char. Yeah, fuck that char!
Syklone Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Please don't remind me of what they did to Hazama. I still cry at night cause of that shit!
o Nereus o Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Terumi is honestly one of the only characters i grew attached to in BBCP, and he was the first person i thought of maining. I spent a lot of time coming up with shit for him.. and now in 2.0 im pretty much fucked. His tools were not that threatening IMO, and they're being nerfed now. People are saying that his buffs balance out his nerfs.. but i really don't see that at all. Im going to try to be a character loyalist and stick with him.. but i think nerfing him like that was a really bad idea.
Dark Ranger88 Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Makoto main since Extend here. Â Quite frankly, I don't see why people complain so much about nerfs when your character is still playable. As long as your main doesn't get debuffed down to joke tier, then you can still win. And honestly, that's where part of the fun in this game comes from (for me at least). I like playing against characters that are better than mine because you have to play really solidly or be very clever if you want to do well. Â Your opponent has a significant advantage over you. Are you good enough to win?
Syklone Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Makoto main since Extend here. Â Quite frankly, I don't see why people complain so much about nerfs when your character is still playable. As long as your main doesn't get debuffed down to joke tier, then you can still win. And honestly, that's where part of the fun in this game comes from (for me at least). I like playing against characters that are better than mine because you have to play really solidly or be very clever if you want to do well. Â Your opponent has a significant advantage over you. Are you good enough to win? Heh look at this guy wanting to "work" to win. You're playing the wrong game buddy.
o Nereus o Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Makoto main since Extend here. Â Quite frankly, I don't see why people complain so much about nerfs when your character is still playable. As long as your main doesn't get debuffed down to joke tier, then you can still win. And honestly, that's where part of the fun in this game comes from (for me at least). I like playing against characters that are better than mine because you have to play really solidly or be very clever if you want to do well. Â Your opponent has a significant advantage over you. Are you good enough to win? It's not really a matter of having to play harder than my opponent does (I use Seth in UNiEL so.. yeah lol)... my character is easy-to-use but hard to win with. He has options.. but he doesn't excel in any of them. That's how he's supposed to be.. but when you change that to where he doesn't have as many options as he does now... you're going away from how the character was designed in the first place.
Angry Guy of DE Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I took Terumi's playstyle as having good speed and effective enough normal to poke and pressure and then confirm with meter to continually do damage and have meter to use supers at the end of combos or in response to opponent's attempts to get away. Terumi's pressure would be scary if his throw range wasn't horrible (get your hands out of your pockets) as his run speed combined with a + 2A and 5B can keep him close. THAT SAID, 2.0 seems to get more use of j.D but the change to 6D can put you in a situation where you aren't on the opponent again when they get up. 236D's change I think can still be good, Terumi's 5D became a legit poke in 1.1 and you had adequate time to confirm into a 236D on hit. Terumi isn't going to be a flexible character in most areas especially without 50+ heat for supers, but his punishes and OD can turn a fight in the blink of an eye with the right reads. As far as Makoto goes...her viability would go up if she got some of her old hitboxes back, that change from CS 2 to Extend was bordering on CT to CS1 Rachel drop in tier position.
Myoro Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I thought something changes regarding ignis regen? If not then yeah relius is still going to be really solid still. I'd love to be wrong about the ignis thing. Fro what I was in a few videos it looked like her meter was going really slow on red. Â I don't think it got slower at all, I was debating to myself if it looked faster 'till now.
TagerTime Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Hey is anyone using this BBCP2 combo app for iphone? What does it do? and is there an english or android version? https://itunes.apple.com/jp/app/konbo-zhang-for-bbcp/id877295879?mt=8 Â Â @Tager notes: I'm afraid I'm out of time to translate them today, so if anyone else wants to, go ahead. I'll take a stab at it tomorrow if no one else does by then. Â Ok thanks alot!
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