[CP] News and Gameplay Discussion 2.0

[D.R.F.]

^ I don't understand why you worsen your pressure for MAYBE better damage from resources, sounds completely counterproductive

[NecroTheReaper]

I just go through random ideas for BB and for some reason, it sounds epic in my mind if Tsubaki had a 6th charge that' takes about the same time to charge as 3 charges but if filled put her in Install for free for the same duration as regular install. Charges then sound a lot scarier to me lol. Not sayin its balanced (or even if its really on topic) but its not really suppose to be given Tsubaki's position. Id say she needs somethin to terrify people.

[chzchan]

See, even if a few of these changes would make her a bit more unique as a character with more emphasis on her drive mechanic, they are too all over the place. You can't just go, "she sucks really really bad so let's just give her everything."

This brings me back to the Bullet example. They did something so simple and so easy but it did so much for her as a character. For the small amount of effort put into the change, it just seems amazing how well it worked. Bullet still has core problems that need addressing and a ton of them at that, but the change they did to her drive made her stronger as a character in her own way according to her drive's layout.

Tsubaki's problems may be all over the place as well, but I feel that doing a little bit of this here and a little bit of that there with an instant overhead over here sounds a bit too far fetched and messy. All I really want is something simple and well calculated to be done to her drive that does way more than you would think it would do at first glance. That is asking for a bit too much, I guess. Well, if they can do it with one character why can't they do it with another?

It makes me wonder how exactly characters are managed, created, and tested on site. Do they have teams for each character? Are singular characters left in the hands if one person? I think I need to watch the extra subbed video that came with the limited edition box again.

[Dark Ranger88]

What would you do to Tsubaki's drive specifically to make her more fun and unique, chzchan?

 

FYI she was my main in Extend for a while before I switched to Plat....then to Makoto. That's why I'm taking an interest in this conversation lol.

[Myoro]

I think Tsubaki just needs more opportunities to charge while being a rush-down like she was intended.

 

I mean, at this point is it really productive for her to be like "Oh wait a moment, I need to kick back and do some light reading" mid battle or to stay on top of the opponent and deal nearly equivalent damage to what she'd have with stocks?

 

Now at the risk of calling Bullet and Izayois drives "intellegent" in their design, I'd think Tsubaki's could take a note from those two. I think Tsubaki should have a couple ways to gain resources without sacrificing her gameplan, the command grab was a move in the right direction.

 

Perhaps if her normal specials gave a tiny amount of stock on hit block or whiff, or if she had small passive gain... IDK. More chances to get stock while on the go, more sensible reasons to use stock. That's my idea.

 

Anyway, it's funny coming from me of all people, but this is the general thread, should we be going on this tangent?

[Errol]

No. Let's get back on track.

 

can someone translate these two tweets? https://twitter.com/No_104KANA/status/523248963999125504

 

I think it is gameplay related, Thank you.

[Dreiko]

No. Let's get back on track.

 

can someone translate these two tweets? https://twitter.com/No_104KANA/status/523248963999125504

 

I think it is gameplay related, Thank you.

He's ranting about Relius being bad now I think.

[chzchan]

What would you do to Tsubaki's drive specifically to make her more fun and unique, chzchan?

FYI she was my main in Extend for a while before I switched to Plat....then to Makoto. That's why I'm taking an interest in this conversation lol.

I really don't want to write up an essay here, so just head over here because I already wrote one in the Tsubaki forums. Don't want this thread to become Tsubaki Complaints General again.

The main concern I was trying to address with this suggestion, regardless of how actually good of an idea it is, was the fact that nobody gives a shit about your install gauge when fighting you. Like with Relius, Valkenhayn, and Rachel you watch their bar like your life depends on it or you lose. I wanted it to be at least sort of similar with Tsubaki.

[Airk]

Yup; There are a billion options for how to make Tsubaki less bland, and most of them come down to "make her gauge more meaningful" (the rest come down to 'make her normals suck less').  It doesn't matter what anyone's particular list is, they just need to pick some and go for it. j.214D as an overhead like it was in loktest 1? Sold. You're on the right track.   Current version? Not so much.

 

Oh well.

 

/digression.

[mAc Chaos]

omg

stop

[Argent Zero]

Jeez... the thread's getting dry and stale faster than the character. Must of used too much salt...

 

 

 

Regardless of which way any character's going, I don't think many of us will truly understand how anything's gonna work till we actually get our hands on it.

That or just plow through everything with brute force and be as crude as oil. Relearn a character? Pfft, the character's gonna relearn me when I'm through with'em.

 

Speaking of which the GCOD seems  to be working. For some characters more than other's at least. Ah well, let's all wait and see what comes next.

[chzchan]

Well ODR will favor characters with good reversal DDs or DDs that just generally start up fast. It actually doesn't seem like that great of an option for a good chunk of the cast really.

I just wish I could play the game and find all this stuff out for myself, but I guess I'll just keep asking japanese players on twitter and maybe getting information.

It's going to be like this for a while with all the information coming secondhand and from observations of videos. It really is the only thing that can be discussed, you know, speculation about how everything may feel or might be like. And also complaining I guess, but nobody wants that.

[NecroTheReaper]

It could also favor those with quick pokes and good combo fodder DDs, especially moves with an N starter rating. Hazama already showed off what he can do

[White Man]

omg

stop

 

I'm not complaining or anything, but I have to ask out of genuine curiosity: What are threads like these FOR, exactly?  This is a news and discussion thread, and as there are currently no news developments for CP 2.0, one would expect people to discuss the game as it presently exists.  Except I've seen board regulars and moderators alike scold people for trying to discuss the game's story, the OST, public opinion of the game, development rumors, etc.  We apparently aren't supposed to spend any number of consecutive posts speculating about a console release, either.  Granted, none of that is directly related to the gameplay itself.  But now it seems people aren't supposed to share their opinions of character changes or game balance either...?  Or are we not supposed to disagree with opinions expressed by others?

Again, I don't mean to criticize the decisions of the forum staff, but I'm finding myself confused regarding the purpose of these news/gameplay threads (this all applies to the similar thread in the GG section as well).  As someone who has held the position of a forum moderator, I respectfully recommend the Dustloop staff have a conversation about the precise purpose of these threads and relay their conclusions to the public so everyone knows exactly what they're allowed to discuss without being told to "get back on topic" every dozen or so posts.

I also recommend, if necessary, the creation of general threads where members are allowed to discuss these games in a broader sense — that is to say, aspects of a game that doesn't directly pertain to gameplay/character strategies or the plot or anything else covered by an existing thread.  There seems to be a strong demand for a place to engage in more casual, opinion-based conversation about these games, and I think it would benefit the community if that demand was at least addressed by the staff.

[chzchan]

I was about to post something similar about how the information and quality of said information that we have available is not sufficient for keeping a thread like this going, but I guess I didn't need to. See, at this point, at least with what we have right now it is really difficult to avoid apparently undesirable things from happening without just simply not posting anything.

Also, what mac did up there is something that needed to be done. I should have tried to explicitly direct discussion (complaining) like this to the subforum of the character and killed the discussion here just because of how things turned out before. Though even in the character subforum wish lists are semi-forbidden by our watch dog so there really is no place for them.

It could also favor those with quick pokes and good combo fodder DDs, especially moves with an N starter rating. Hazama already showed off what he can do

Oh yeah there's those too. I'm pretty sure this only applies to a few characters as well. It'd be neat if a list could be compiled, but I'm not too sure if the data we have right now can be used in the calculation.

[TD]

you guys have to understand; tsubaki is discussed... a bit to much. to the point of becoming incessant.

 

I have nothing against the players, and i'm sure alot of the guys don't either. but, there is a point where people just don't want to hear it anymore. for awhile.

 

technically, I agree, this thread has long ago transitioned into a general thread (with needlessly imposed rules, I might add) - and is kept open for no real reason at this point. members will wander in here and add on to whatever conversation is going on. there isn't enough on this game to give out many facts, so arguments are going to happen every two pages.

 

my recommendation: close this thread

[NecroTheReaper]

Thinking about it, has there been any footage of install or state changing DDs being affected by OD?

[SixWingedAngel]

shouldn't we make a "blazblue general general news discussion and speculation thread" that includes art ost release dates and all these other things that are also nice (and people want) to discuss?

[chzchan]

Thinking about it, has there been any footage of install or state changing DDs being affected by OD?

What other state changing DDs exist that haven't been ported to OD besides Hakumen's Mugen?

Well, actually it seems like there are actually some 1.1 Hakumen Mugen properties that were moved to OD in 2.0 or mirrored in OD like 623A's extended dashing range for example. I am pretty sure I saw this in a recent video. It makes me wonder what the properties are in Mugen now that they are also (maybe) in OD as well.

Tsubaki and Hakumen are the only characters left on the roster with state changing DDs. I guess there is also Azrael to an extent but not exactly.

[chzchan]

Something made it so that I posted twice somehow so welp. Wonder why the countermeasure didn't pop up to keep the second post from appearing. Can't delete posts on this forum.

[Dreiko]

Rather than close this thread, maybe open a "Bitch about CP2 balance" thread (saying it with love here, not claiming anyone here is actually complaining without at least some validity in their argument :P) so that we won't have 2 page arguments.

 

 

 

Still though, of all the chars to summon such arguments, the buffed Tsubaki was NOT who I was expecting. Relius peeps staying classy and Kokonoe peeps are like, afraid they'll be lynched if they dare complain or still believe Koko will somehow end up broken anyways or something. Ah well, all in all, surprises ahoy.

 

 

 

 

Thinking about it, has there been any footage of install or state changing DDs being affected by OD?

Platinum's super item DD makes your next item a super item too in OD. That's all I know.

[mAc Chaos]

I'm not complaining or anything, but I have to ask out of genuine curiosity: What are threads like these FOR, exactly?  This is a news and discussion thread, and as there are currently no news developments for CP 2.0, one would expect people to discuss the game as it presently exists.  Except I've seen board regulars and moderators alike scold people for trying to discuss the game's story, the OST, public opinion of the game, development rumors, etc.  We apparently aren't supposed to spend any number of consecutive posts speculating about a console release, either.  Granted, none of that is directly related to the gameplay itself.  But now it seems people aren't supposed to share their opinions of character changes or game balance either...?  Or are we not supposed to disagree with opinions expressed by others?

Again, I don't mean to criticize the decisions of the forum staff, but I'm finding myself confused regarding the purpose of these news/gameplay threads (this all applies to the similar thread in the GG section as well).  As someone who has held the position of a forum moderator, I respectfully recommend the Dustloop staff have a conversation about the precise purpose of these threads and relay their conclusions to the public so everyone knows exactly what they're allowed to discuss without being told to "get back on topic" every dozen or so posts.

I also recommend, if necessary, the creation of general threads where members are allowed to discuss these games in a broader sense — that is to say, aspects of a game that doesn't directly pertain to gameplay/character strategies or the plot or anything else covered by an existing thread.  There seems to be a strong demand for a place to engage in more casual, opinion-based conversation about these games, and I think it would benefit the community if that demand was at least addressed by the staff.

To be honest, I have thought that myself. What IS the point of this thread? Almost everything that's discussed here, could be relegated to the character specific subforums. That, and since there is no clear objective, it's hard to define anything. If there's no rules then I don't even know what I'm supposed to enforce aside from people spamming gifs. It would be much better if there was a set of rules that everybody could follow.

So I've always wanted to sit down and pin down some specific rules to get everybody on the same page. The problem is that once you get into it, you realize it's a lot harder than it looks. You somehow have to define a purpose for this thread that would exclude topics that can be discussed in character subforums but somehow are still gameplay related. Everything is connected, so that's pretty much impossible.

This is why a lot of the times the mod interventions boil down to "I'm the mod, deal with it." There isn't really anything specific to point to but the mod's judgement.

Plus a lot of the problems aren't related to actual violations, but matters of degree. Complaining about a character's balance is okay. But if that's the ONLY THING that ever happens ever then it spoils the discussion. It's like when you are at a party trying to talk to people, and one person keeps taking every single topic no matter what it is back to the thing that they want to talk about. You would get annoyed.

Besides, after a while everybody gets the point. I could make a big deal every day about them shafting Hakumen's counters, but it's better served in the Hakumen subforums where there's a friendlier audience for that, and nobody wants to get surrounded by negativity 24/7. I've pretty much accepted that the balance is going to be a random potpourri of whatever the ArcSys gods deem worthy this time around, and just going to roll with it. Whatever it is, it'll get replaced by the next iteration after a little while, anyway.

So it's a matter of degree. But you can't quantify that objectively, which means it goes back to the mods deciding when it feels like it's going too far.

In the end it just means I'll have to steer discussion as usual. It's actually more work than having some set rules since you have to decide everything on a case by case basis instead of just pointing to a list and saying "nope, not allowed."

[Zouf]

I don't see why this thread should be moderated anyway. It's a space of free talk about anything related to BB. As long as people don't insult each other, what's the problem?

 

Personally, when I come here, I just check the current topic. If it's something I don't care, then fine, i'll skip it and come back later to see if something else popped up.

 

This is how I see general threads at least.

 

But it's true Tsubaki gets too much attention here :P

[TD]

Might as well just change the name or close the thread. If it won't be a general thread, if that really is just too much of a problem - it should not exist.

[mAc Chaos]

Nah, I'll figure it out. Just carry on as usual. If anything becomes excessive I'll just nudge it back on course.