Verimeloni Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 slight changes would basically be characters with more tools towards the top of the list More like ranking characters with better tools rather than the quantity of the tools, like better dp/reversal, oki, mixup, pressure etc.
Litherain-XIII Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 More like ranking characters with better tools rather than the quantity of the tools, like better dp/reversal, oki, mixup, pressure etc. exactly. preach brotha
Tong Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Things didnt go so well last time DL users tried to create a tier list back in BBCS, some people just didnt understand the game were taking part of the discussion and to make matters worse they didnt have the maturity to listen and understand, often getting "opinions" mixed up with straight and real "facts". And from what I usually read here, I still think another tier list discussion isnt going to end well...
Airk Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 I'm not sure what purpose that would serve. I mean, FFS, we can't even agree who has the best (okay, second best, because Inferno Divider. :P) DP in the game. It all depends on what you mean by "best". Trying to rank these pieces ...er...piecemeal doesn't really tell you much anyway?
LaowPing Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Well, a tier list is mostly based on opinions. What's bad to you might be viable to others. We might be able to find people with similar ideas on what's good and what's bad but if you're worried people will think differently than you then... well welcome to the internet.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 That's why I hate the talk of tier lists on this site, all it leads is to debates on who sucks and who's good and nobody ever seems to realize its opinion based.
Hollysmoke Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Can anyone give me a quick rundown on gameplay/style changes basically? It seems like certain characters like Kokonoe got retooled. I haven't been following the news much lately.
Airk Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Can anyone give me a quick rundown on gameplay/style changes basically? It seems like certain characters like Kokonoe got retooled. I haven't been following the news much lately.No one's core game plan has changed in a meaningful way for CPE/CP2. It's basically just balance changes and combo routes. Kokonoe still has her same braindead gameplan, she just has to keep track of an actual resource now, and her tools are less good.
Errol Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 having less of a resource can drastically change your game. see rachel. The changes have directly made her less zoning based and more based on footsies, touching with normal moves, etc. Can't say exactly how it affects koko.
Wild Candy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 From what i saw in footage, so long as Your not going ham with Gravitons, or getting rid of them with Activate, it should be too bad. Kokonoe's still capable of controlling neutral and pressuring fairly well, but she has to play footsies a lot more, and she can't be careless with her resources.
Myoro Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 No one's core game plan has changed in a meaningful way for CPE/CP2. It's basically just balance changes and combo routes. Kokonoe still has her same braindead gameplan, she just has to keep track of an actual resource now, and her tools are less good. I disagree. A lot of character's plans have shifted quite a bit. Nu looks to be strictly zoning where before she was hybridized rushdown. With changes in system mechanics the nature of these different playstyles have been affected as well, making some styles more powerful in some areas where previously they weren't. (IE Barrier changes, OD Raid, and changes to the rest of the cast) The core concept of every character still boils down to "hit them until you or they stop moving," that much hasn't changed. Even while drastic nonsensical changes like turning Ragna into a zoner or Platinum into a grappler haven't happened, the way they go about implementing their established gameplan has changed quite a bit and should not be overlooked. (Rachel and Tao have been interesting to watch as a result of this update as well.) Even Relius who's been said to be one of the least changed characters has quite a bit of new stuff brewing, thanks to some exploitable doll system mechanic changes that I've taken note of. I think Kokonoe having more limited access to gravitons, and more combo routes without use of graviton, courtesy of 3C>5A working, changes her from more set-up heavy to less set up heavy and more rushdown and footsies dependent, but of course I can't really tell without adequate research into the matter. (I've never been super knowledgeable of Kokonoe so someone else is better off speaking on that.)
Wild Candy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 I'm really looking foward to CPE's release in late April, i REALLY hope it sparks some more life into the scene again.
GunBlazer Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 I think Kokonoe having more limited access to gravitons, and more combo routes without use of graviton, courtesy of 3C>5A working There is no God...
LaowPing Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Probably going to pick Tao back up for the first time since CSE just for those jump loops. They look delicious. Also, more Hazama chains and new Terumi theme song. Fuck yeah.
StylisH Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Koko is also doing less damage. It would appear she has to choose between damage, zoning, oki, and mixup now. Her Graviton regen rate is a joke. Wonder how much thought went into that.
Tong Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Well, a tier list is mostly based on opinions. What's bad to you might be viable to others. We might be able to find people with similar ideas on what's good and what's bad but if you're worried people will think differently than you then... well welcome to the internet. Opinions in tier lists are valid when comparing characters of similar strength or placement, because these characters are good objectively and factually, so it's hard to determine which one is stronger. Like when comparing CS1 Bang and CS1 Litchi, both are very strong in their own way and do well in most match-ups, so it's not a problem having an opinion that either is slightly better than the other, because they're comparable characters with similar strengths. Now, saying that CS1 Tager or CS1 Tsubaki are better and superior characters in general than CS1 Valkenhayn or CS1 Makoto is not an opinion, it's just a completely wrong fact. Characters are considered weak or strong because of actual facts, and not opinions. Who state these facts? Usually players that understand or/and play the game, and because they're knowledgeable about the game they have more or less the right to judge who's strong or weak, simply put. That is not to say they have a final saying on these matters, discussions about which character is weaker or stronger will always exist, but there's always a consensus on who's top, mid and bottom. And yes, tier lists change all the time. So do not try to convince a bottom character can be top unless you have really, but really good points and evidence to back up your thoughts and facts.
Verimeloni Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I'm hoping they'll soon announce BB4 just so that they could fix Terumi once and for all.
heavymetalmixer Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I'm hoping they'll soon announce BB4 just so that they could fix Terumi once and for all. Or make him Makoto-tier : /
swordsman09 Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I'm hoping they'll soon announce BB4 just so that they could fix Terumi once and for all. You mean by removing him from the game?
SoWL Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Koko is also doing less damage. It would appear she has to choose between damage, zoning, oki, and mixup now. Her Graviton regen rate is a joke. Wonder how much thought went into that. Pretty sure it doesn't regenerate at all, similar to Bang's nails. At least that's how it was supposed to be back at the loketests: if it changed since then, feel free to correct me.
Tokkan Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Pretty sure it doesn't regenerate at all, similar to Bang's nails. At least that's how it was supposed to be back at the loketests: if it changed since then, feel free to correct me. The gravitons do regenerate albeit very slowly. I still laugh at how they gave the gravitons 9 stocks simply because "it's Kokonoe".
StylisH Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 The gravitons do regenerate albeit very slowly. I still laugh at how they gave the gravitons 9 stocks simply because "it's Kokonoe". Very slowly as in damn near not at all. Somewhere out there Matoi is cursing Mori's parentage.
Dreiko Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 The gravitons regenerate at a decent pace it seems, the issue is more that "activate" also uses up one graviton stock, not just the actual placement of it.
Airk Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Very slowly as in damn near not at all. Somewhere out there Matoi is cursing Mori's parentage.Gravitons come back at a rate of one every... looks like about 9 seconds, unless the rate varies depending on what she's doing. That's more than bloody enough.
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