BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 CP2, Jin looks no worse than A+, but he might drop to just A. People only think he's S tier because Fenrich stays being 19th Dan lol. Dude's like the machaboo of Blazblue lol.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Rachel has only been top in CT and CP. Ragna and Jin have been rated S more games than not. Well I know Ragna was only really considered S in CSEX and maybe CS1? If someone can confirm that, that'd be great. But even so, they've only ever been below A like once or twice if I recall.
Dreiko Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Well I know Ragna was only really considered S in CSEX and maybe CS1? If someone can confirm that, that'd be great. But even so, they've only ever been below A like once or twice if I recall. Nah top in cs1 was Litchi and Bang and arguably Valk. Ragna was not quite as good there as he was in extend.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Then yea, Ragna has only ever been S in CSEX then. He had some seriously retarded damage in the corner, especially of a Fatal Counter.
Dreiko Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 People thought he was god tier when CP 1.0 dropped. But that was mostly due to him being easier to win with at early stages of the games life cycle. He dropped to A tier some time after. Jin in CP2 looks very strong, mostly in part to gods like Tetsuwo and Fenrich bodying all of Japan. I predict his placing will shift a bit as tech is figured out for the other strong characters though. Same can be said for Ragna. I think Tetsuwo was playing Kokonoe before cp2 came out though so I'm not sure if he's the best example for Jin not being S tier lol.
StylisH Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 As long as no one is broken, I for one am not too worried about tiers
heavymetalmixer Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 As long as no one is broken, I for one am not too worried about tiers ^This, so much.
Airk Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 As long as no one is broken, I for one am not too worried about tiersI'm still worried about Nu, because she seems to have the CSE Ragna flavor "all the awesome for half the work" thing going on right now. She's probably not CP Koko tier, but she shuts down a lot of characters without even needing to think about it.
Stellarcircle5 Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Yeah, we can at least be happy that the closest thing we have to a Kokonoe debacle is Nu, and even she is still able to be dealt with.
Errol Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 in the beginning kokonoe may have been more dominant, but kokonoe, even then, required much more thought than Nu does now. CP2 Nu requires very little thought, and she does fantastic in lag. And you don't have to buy her either, so really, I expect it to be worse than koko was.
Myoro Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 in the beginning kokonoe may have been more dominant, but kokonoe, even then, required much more thought than Nu does now. CP2 Nu requires very little thought, and she does fantastic in lag. And you don't have to buy her either, so really, I expect it to be worse than koko was. How does anyone know how 2.0 Nu does in lag? Game doesn't even have netplay yet. '3' But yeah, I'm still more worried about 2.0 Koko and Carl than I am about Nu. I'm not thrilled about frame-tight zoning pressure that confirms into big-ish damaje anywhere, going hand in hand with drives that cause chip in 2.0, but it's not the worst thing I can see myself being subject to. I'd take a hundred 2.0 Nu 13s to one 1.0 Kokonoe...
someonewhodied Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Don't like fighting against nu? Pick bang. Always been the go to counterpick for that matchup.
Myoro Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Don't like fighting against nu? Pick bang. Always been the go to counterpick for that matchup. I always thought that was Tao...
LaowPing Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 I always thought that was Tao... Hazama can counter too. He can punish wiffed drives but she can as well. His ranged super beats her swords.
Errol Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Don't like fighting against nu? Pick bang. Always been the go to counterpick for that matchup. With all drives cutting through nails I'm not sure about that anymore. But I think the standards are probably still good choices. tao, valk, carl? Oh and tager.
Narroo Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Yes, Tager. The standard, all around counter to Nu. This patch might be worth it for that alone.
StylisH Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Or Valk. Or Koko. Or even Carl. Nu still has suspect matchups and it looks like now even Tager wants in
Moy_X7 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 When was Jin ever S- tier? CSII, CP, and CPE. While not S-tier in CT and CS1.1, he was still pretty high up, A+ material. Here are my two cents (that nobody asked for) regarding what makes a character strong. What makes a character strong? 1. High reliable damage off most confirms and ridiculous damage off certain confirms. What I mean by reliable damage is that the character has ways to get damage be in neutral and off strong mix-up and doesn't require too many resources to get that damage (Heat, consumable Drives) and when they do use resources, their damage is often ridiculous. 2. A strong neutral game, this often comes in the form of high mobility or strong normals/specials (Ragna 5B da gawd or Tao/Valk/Hazama tier mobility). 3. Defensive options (reliable backdashes like Nu's/Mu's, DPs, counters, etc). 4. Strong pressure, mix-up, and okizeme. Now let's look at Terumi... 1. Reliable damage? Nope, he requires lots of Heat to even do the reliable damage of the likes of Ragna or Jin. 2. A strong neutral game? His neutral game is ok, he has a couple of decent normals and specials to throw out but nothing too outstanding. 3. Defensive options? He gains access to some decent reversals once he has Heat but then he won't be able to use that Heat for his damage. 4. Strong pressure, mix-up, and oki? His pressure is pretty ok with 2A +1 and 5B +2 etc, his mix-up is easy to see coming unless you do some gimmicky mix-up with Heat and his oki is nothing to write home about. All in all, Terumi has his strong points but his biggest shortcoming is that he does shitty damage and he has to choose whether to spend his Heat for mix-up, defense, or to at least do some damage. His neutral game is also pretty straightforward and weak. Sure he gains Heat easier than other characters but he needs to spend it as soon as he gets it in order to stay relevant. The most important things in the BB series have always been high, reliable damage and a strong neutral game. High reliable damage can be attained through strong normals in neutral or with strong mix-up (usually off corner oki). A strong neutral game is just that, which can be attained with strong, long-reaching normals and specials or by having high mobility. Terumi does not have either of those important qualities, so he's poo-poo, whereas Derpvee-13 possesses both of those qualities and still dabbles in the other qualities (one of the best backdashes in the game and full screen, low risk mix-up, etc).
LaowPing Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Jin is no where near S tier in CP. He's strong, but not S tier. He's somewhere in between A and B. As far as Terumi goes: 1) His damage is reliable in the corner, which he is somewhat dependent on. It's an easy 3.5 or 4k if you spend any meter. Mid screen, does have to burn 50 heat but you'll get half of that back during the combo. 2) Pretty spot on. His neutral game basically amounts to 5D, J.D, and running in. 3) Sure you have to spend heat but Messenga is one of the best supers i the game. Even when it's baited Terumi still gets out for free. Any gap in a block string becomes a free escape. Few characters can truly punish a good Messenga. The only time I've been punished for it is by Noels 4D because for some reason Noel get's pushed back by the Messenga and you eat a fatal (another reason for me to hate her -_-) 4) He has some of the better pressure in the game in my opinion. He has the same 2A, 5A, and 5B has Hazama which were already great. Then they also gave him 6B which has low and grab invul, fatal counters, can be faked out, is air unblockable, and it's plus on block. He can stay in your face for a long time forcing you to respect his buttons. I find J.2D is a decent option. If you're creative with it it can open people up. I find J.2D into another J.2D works well since it's plus on block, forcing most people to respect it. His command grab works well when you teach the opponent not to jump since Terumi has lots of ways to catch jump outs. His oki is decent if you're willing to stop 1 move short to 2D or safe jump. And let's not forget his overdrive. Easy combo's for 7k? Why, yes, please. Hell, just grab into overdrive super with 100 heat is 5K.
Stellarcircle5 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 If you play Terumi, you might as well play Jin. Their gameplan is the same, yet Jin is better in almost every way :V
chzchan Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Jin has faster than average heat gain as well, right? He sits right below Terumi and Hazama in terms of heat gain, though these two have attributes that make them gain heat faster. I have heard this said but never had it confirmed.
Dreiko Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 With all drives cutting through nails I'm not sure about that anymore. But I think the standards are probably still good choices. tao, valk, carl? Oh and tager. Lambda mode Ds also cut through nails in cp1.0 but it's still not a big deal. The superior air mobility and Bang's Ds make this a bad matchup more so than the nails. She can't just safely 5D or 236D from fulll screen vs Bang since 6D and in some cases daifunka is an easy on reaction punish to those things and it makes her gravity seed lockdown shaky too. About the only use nails have is keeping her from running away/airdashing backwards too much so that you can approach her better. If you toss the A one a certain way even if she tries to AA you it'll hit her out of 2D/6D and then you're in and she's poisoned.
StylisH Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Until Terumi has at least a respectable OH, he will stay basement tier. All that speed and flash damage don't mean much if you can't open your opponent up
Fame96 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Honestly if they make the command grab not slow as all hell, the lack of little to no high/low mixup would not bother me. The rewards off of it are decent enough (even though it is very short starter. Thanks team blue -_-). But a more serious question, who has better stagger pressure then terumi? I really gotta hear this.
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