[CPEX] Blazblue: Chronophantasma Extend News and Gameplay Discussion 3.0

[Eshi]

Amane is better in this version... Finally we can combo a little more but it's harder to get level 3 drill... anyway I'll drill your balls

Completely disagree. Amane got significantly worse in this version. Getting level 3 drill is harder so we deal no damage 90% of the time, 5B pushback totally gone hurts pressure, 5D level 3 pushback is utterly ridiculous, most changes to his specials have either very little or no net positive gains. I definitely liked 1.1 much more.

[Errol]

Overall, balance wise, tier list wise, you think amane is worse in this version?

[mAc Chaos]

ok. im going to post. again.

 

No, the input system will still read 12361236 as 236236.

 

To be precise, supers only require cardinal directions. you can do "236236" supers with 2626 and "632146" with 6246.

 

And no, it is isn't 1.0's input system. The "back to negate DP input" change from 1.1 is still in the game, and sees a lot of use.

 

In fact, in regard to that 12361236 example, you can even do 4123641236 and get 236236. The 4 input to prevent DP thing does not prevent 236236 from working!

 

Alright! Glad thats out of the way.

What do you mean, back to negate DP input? You mean that if you pushed back it would negate a DP input in 1.1, but not older versions of BB?

[Chaoschao222]

What do you mean, back to negate DP input? You mean that if you pushed back it would negate a DP input in 1.1, but not older versions of BB?

In 1.0, 6~236X could give you 623X, which made dashing 236 motions obnoxious at times if you also had a 623X motion. This was fixed, where 6~4236X would always give 236X motions.

[GunBlazer]

ok. im going to post. again.

 

No, the input system will still read 12361236 as 236236.

 

To be precise, supers only require cardinal directions. you can do "236236" supers with 2626 and "632146" with 6246.

 

And no, it is isn't 1.0's input system. The "back to negate DP input" change from 1.1 is still in the game, and sees a lot of use.

 

In fact, in regard to that 12361236 example, you can even do 4123641236 and get 236236. The 4 input to prevent DP thing does not prevent 236236 from working!

 

Alright! Glad thats out of the way.

 

Good. I thought the change made in the loketests had stayed in, given that Bang's Nail-brella had a command change(?)

[mAc Chaos]

In 1.0, 6~236X could give you 623X, which made dashing 236 motions obnoxious at times if you also had a 623X motion. This was fixed, where 6~4236X would always give 236X motions.

I was familiar with the input issues, but not with how they fixed it. I figured they just improved the way it read the input somehow. But from what you're saying it's exactly the same exact you have to manually shove a 4 input in there.

[antonymichiru]

Completely disagree. Amane got significantly worse in this version. Getting level 3 drill is harder so we deal no damage 90% of the time, 5B pushback totally gone hurts pressure, 5D level 3 pushback is utterly ridiculous, most changes to his specials have either very little or no net positive gains. I definitely liked 1.1 much more.

I prefer this Amane exactly because he doesn't get easily to lvl 3: I mean I enjoy trying to get the right moment to use 6D or simply cancel hariken into 6D or just use hariken until lvl 3. Morover he can still pressure imho.. I feel he can pressure even better thanks to the drive cancel.. Anyway, for me 2.0 Amane is a lot more fun!

Ps: I don't care tier list. Amane will never be good like Jin, Ragna or Hazama

[SoWL]

Ps: I don't care tier list. Amane will never be good like Jin, Ragna or Hazama

That's what the Tager players thought.

It's not about the tier lists, it's about decent effort-reward ratio, and Amane's is kinda whack.

[oh no, he said]

Personally the changes to Amane's 5B and 6B are real dealbreakers, I loved those guys like family. 

 

It felt like they looked at Amane, figured out some of his major weaknesses, and instead of buffing them, drastically changed them to exist as something that's piratically unrecognizable from what they were in 1.1. Like, yeah, that'd be alright if they were also overall stronger options but that's really just not the case as far as I'm concerned.

[Tokkan]

That's Amazon though.

 

For all we know it could be August.

 

Hey, remember when Amazon said the US release of vanilla BBCP would be on March 25 2014 and we all thought it was a placeholder and then it turned out to be the actual date?

 

And I don't think we'll be waiting much longer than a few months anyway, the game already has English trophies which means the NA version has already passed certification and is basically "done".

[chzchan]

In fact, in regard to that 12361236 example, you can even do 4123641236 and get 236236. The 4 input to prevent DP thing does not prevent 236236 from working!

 

Alright! Glad thats out of the way.

 

Okay thanks for clearing that up. I guess it was all in my head. Better spread the word.

[TD]

Amane barely has a purpose anymore, unfortunately. he lost his best gimmick which was the drill. It's too bad because this character has a ton of potential, but we are just going to have to see what is implemented in the next game. It is safe to say though he is unviable in top level play, extremely inconsistent character as it is. Not to say he can't win but either the people being played aren't high level or the person playing him is a God. Unlikely.

[Eshi]

Overall, balance wise, tier list wise, you think amane is worse in this version?

Yes, much worse. The best buffs to him are drive special cancels for his pressure, but because he does no damage at all he gives DP/counter characters tons of opportunities to make a right guess. Most characters do double his output in average damage and have way better oki. So, slightly more favorable matchups against no dp characters like kokonoe, carl etc, significantly worse matchups against everyone else. He's absolutely bottom tier.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raziul]

Good. Who ever sat there and thought to themselves that basing a character around chip damage would be a good idea deserves to be chucked into a volcano. Amane shouldn't exist on principle alone.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Characters that do chip as a main way to do damage is fine, provided that average damage from combos does do an average of 1/4 to 1/3 of a life bar.

In Amane's case, his average damage is low outside of certain starters and then once he gets drill up he can do chip damage that is near a basic combo and be safe. 

Then your barrier gets emptied and chip damage does not scale so you effectively lose more health blocking than if you got hit by the drill.

Amane needed better average damage and slightly less chip damage at drill lvl 3.  Instead he got a seemingly butchered 6B and still suffers from the Dhalsim limb syndrome with some of his normals so he can get hit.

[Raziul]

I don't really understand how people can be ok with being punished for using the most fundamental mechanics of fighting games. At the most basic level, you have attacks for offense, blocking for defensive, and grabs to counter an impenetrable guard. Why is it ok for me to lose 30% of my health while blocking a non grab attack? Introducing a character that can ignore or circumvent the most basic rules of the game is completely idiotic. Blocking is there to prevent damage, and if I can't count on it for even that, why is it there?

[Zyed]

Im about to sing "In the Arms of An Angel" for Amane

 

Cuz god damn 

 

its like a funeral in here

[SoWL]

I don't really understand how people can be ok with being punished for using the most fundamental mechanics of fighting games. At the most basic level, you have attacks for offense, blocking for defensive, and grabs to counter an impenetrable guard. Why is it ok for me to lose 30% of my health while blocking a non grab attack? Introducing a character that can ignore or circumvent the most basic rules of the game is completely idiotic. Blocking is there to prevent damage, and if I can't count on it for even that, why is it there?

I don't follow you: how exactly is chip damage different from grabs by your logic? Both punish blocking, but one is fine while the other isn't? They can be dodged in the same way, too (actually, chip damage is probably even easier to avoid).

[Bio_NightShadow]

Completely disagree. Amane got significantly worse in this version. Getting level 3 drill is harder so we deal no damage 90% of the time, 5B pushback totally gone hurts pressure, 5D level 3 pushback is utterly ridiculous, most changes to his specials have either very little or no net positive gains. I definitely liked 1.1 much more.

I second this im not a big fan of this version of amane sure its fun chipping people to death with people who don't know the match up but he just got so much worst

 

Edit: other then what Eshi said *claps* right on the spot there i hate how they changed his Distortion drive input im trying to get used to it but i still either accidentally do it or can't do it on wake up and get punished so hard for it and when i can i delay but it can be blocked so easily, and 6b i hate using 6b now so much and like Eshi said 5b pressure was hurt bad its way harder to connect 5b>2c for blockstrings or knockdown or for a combo it seriously is a matter of spacing with that. i only use 6D now when im positive they are going to quick wake up unless i accidentally throw it out.... but even if im right if you don't time it right and i mean you have to time it right 6D will whiff even there right on it heck there was even a time when my 6D connected at the end of the animation but bcuz of the nerf even though i was still holding the button down the move ended and only filled the drill gauge up by a little bit. I seriously don't know how to fill about how the drills pop your opponent up on hit i prefer how they got sucked into bcuz im still trying to figure out high damaging combos with midscreen and in the corner but im not really that motivated to tinker around with it for that long. Overall 1.1 amane was far better then this version >.>

[Dark Ranger88]

I don't really understand how people can be ok with being punished for using the most fundamental mechanics of fighting games. At the most basic level, you have attacks for offense, blocking for defensive, and grabs to counter an impenetrable guard. Why is it ok for me to lose 30% of my health while blocking a non grab attack? Introducing a character that can ignore or circumvent the most basic rules of the game is completely idiotic. Blocking is there to prevent damage, and if I can't count on it for even that, why is it there?

 

Ever heard of barrier guarding?

[Raziul]

I don't follow you: how exactly is chip damage different from grabs by your logic? Both punish blocking, but one is fine while the other isn't? They can be dodged in the same way, too (actually, chip damage is probably even easier to avoid).

Because generally speaking, grabs are severely limited by a number of factors including range, speed, and reward. Different games treat grabs a little differently, but the purpose has always been to give the player a way around an impenetrable guard. If your systems are in place to prevent that, chip shouldn't even be necessary. Human error alone will usually be enough to be honest.

Here's the problem with chip. Blocking stops regular offense from doing damage (based on our most basic rock paper scissors). Chip allows regular attacks to circumvent that fundamental rule and deal damage, defeating the entire purpose of blocking in the first place.

It gets even dumber when the reward on it is so absurd.

[antonymichiru]

Oh so u don't like one of the weakest characters ever... I will stop playing with Amane

Yeah.

笑

[Bio_NightShadow]

Because generally speaking, grabs are severely limited by a number of factors including range, speed, and reward. Different games treat grabs a little differently, but the purpose has always been to give the player a way around an impenetrable guard. If your systems are in place to prevent that, chip shouldn't even be necessary. Human error alone will usually be enough to be honest.

Here's the problem with chip. Blocking stops regular offense from doing damage (based on our most basic rock paper scissors). Chip allows regular attacks to circumvent that fundamental rule and deal damage, defeating the entire purpose of blocking in the first place.

It gets even dumber when the reward on it is so absurd.

soooo your complaining about chip damage hmmmmmm ok i'd be cool with that if there was a real reason to complain about it yes there's amane who is all about chip damage but he's crap because he has little to no mix up so if he opens you up thats your own fault thats why he has chip. His chip gauge overheats really fast if over used it also goes down if he gets caught in a blockstring and since he has no reversal without meter he has to deal with it. that and the fact barrier pushes him way back giving you a chance to make good choices and catch him because when he's caught he has to deal with whatever the opponent is doing til a opening happens. there's also certain moves that chip but again barrier bcuz barrier management is a important thing in this game. in all honesty i've lost to grabs more times then i have chip i've probably been killed by chip about 20-30 rather then the 100+ times i've lost to a grab. just wanted to put my opinion out there >.>

[VermilionBird]

If Amane's chip was really as absurd as you make it out to be, then we'd be seeing Amane dominating the boards and making Nu look like Terumi :V

[Zerpy]

i dont think he hates amane, but more the gameplay design. imagine if amane would be actually a solid char + that ridiculous chip dmg. its just broken by design, but amane is so crap (and other chars very good) that it doesnt really matter.