Tari Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 well kro_ i guess we can still count on you to find good stuff with Rachel, the consecutive pumpkins in one direction does sound nice, i know your doing stuff with tsubaki, but Rachel needs someone Q_Q Edit: i didnt mean keeping someone cornered just to clear up confusion i meant actually getting them there... Getting them into the corner isn't a huge problem, either. Actually getting a hit in on them there can be annoying. I don't think I've managed to start any ground combo from 5b (unless I've been blocking a crapload, which usually means I'm not the one doing the cornering) or 5c.
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 I'll just say this. No where bad as Tager in CT and his match-ups (some match-up come close). So there. no one said she was so there she is however really shitty and your opponent has to suck for you to win, either that or you're Dora
Kuuhaku Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 I'll just say this. No where bad as Tager in CT and his match-ups (some match-up come close). So there. According to the cumulative match up chart, she's either as bad or close match-up wise (somewhere between -12 and -15). She has an anti-air and better options than CT Tager, but she can't capitalize on mistakes with massive soviet damage. She's lacking a 2-8 though. But that could develop if she doesn't improve while other characters do.
zeech Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 My theory is that, at a noob/intermediate level, Tager wasnt as bad due to his huge damage from short combos/ single moves, and zoners at that level arent as skilled in keeping him out. Whereas a beginner/intermediate Rachel in CS is even further behind the rest of the cast, since she requires a fair bit of skill to achieve the minimal strengths she has left. Can you Rachel players comment on this madeup theory of mine?
chun_li1 Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 My theory is that, at a noob/intermediate level, Tager wasnt as bad due to his huge damage from short combos/ single moves, and zoners at that level arent as skilled in keeping him out. Whereas a beginner/intermediate Rachel in CS is even further behind the rest of the cast, since she requires a fair bit of skill to achieve the minimal strengths she has left. Can you Rachel players comment on this madeup theory of mine? Agreed.
Kuuhaku Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 My theory is that, at a noob/intermediate level, Tager wasnt as bad due to his huge damage from short combos/ single moves, and zoners at that level arent as skilled in keeping him out. Whereas a beginner/intermediate Rachel in CS is even further behind the rest of the cast, since she requires a fair bit of skill to achieve the minimal strengths she has left. Can you Rachel players comment on this madeup theory of mine? No one really cares about that level even though the majority of us play at that level. But yeah, Rachel vs. Tager doesn't look so one-sided until you realize you can jA spam and wind+pumpkin everything. CT Tager's not really so bad when he gets in though. Just that's a huge uphill battle. CS Rachel's not scary no matter where she is. CS Rachel's not suuuper terrible at casual level. Just you have to lrn2block.
zaeris Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 No one really cares about that level even though the majority of us play at that level. But yeah, Rachel vs. Tager doesn't look so one-sided until you realize you can jA spam and wind+pumpkin everything. CT Tager's not really so bad when he gets in though. Just that's a huge uphill battle. CS Rachel's not scary no matter where she is. CS Rachel's not suuuper terrible at casual level. Just you have to lrn2block. or you can tank and make rachel waste all her wind for a nice 2k damage then retaliate for 4k damage off 2a ^^. see who wins in the end. For me having no damage is just terrible and worst than low tiers its beyond dissapointing. Welcome BB bridget enjoy some nice hit and run into 1.2k and time out. playing the guessing game right 10 times vs someone who only needs to learn 3-4 combo.. well in the end it doesn't matter with the scrub scene since people don't block xD and you will die a painful death trying to land that 10 combo.
GenoWhirl Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 On an unrelated note, Merry Christmas all you Rachel mains that have stuck with her until now :3
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 i know CS isn't something everyone has been blessed with but for those of you w/ it in your area, c'mon guys, this has turned into the thread where we talk about how horrible she is rather than discussing new stuff, in fact every thread is like that, i thought i'd be sticking with my loli but i could just be switching do to a lack of care for her, last time we got news it was ripped apart, ANYTHING is good right now
DC Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 I believe you may be under the impression that Rachel has even an inkling of hope. Everything about her is terrible now.
DC Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Hm, alright. I'll think positively from now on. Winding George seems to be an improvement.
killionaire Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 You know what would be the ultimate buff to CS Rachel? Giving George XIII the powers of the Hypnotoad. There. 10-0 matchups everywhere. (seriously). Sorry.. Just had to say that.... Anyway, one obstacle that we would definitely be facing would be the multitude of JP players who switched mains and therefore won't be able to do a thing to help us figure out what CS Rachel has left.. In fact, who do we have left?
wuku Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Anyway, one obstacle that we would definitely be facing would be the multitude of JP players who switched mains and therefore won't be able to do a thing to help us figure out what CS Rachel has left.. In fact, who do we have left? You can be a hero of this Rachel forum by yourself. Assuming nobody plays her now, then if you investigate new stuffs and win with her, you would be a Rachel godfather.
GenoWhirl Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 We have Lobelia mindgame spam (lol) George Crappy(?) Zoning Our Predicable and lovely 4B Time-out Shenanigans Cat-Chair Weak loli damage Tempest Dahlia after a certain normal I don't remember I think that's all
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 its time we get serious about this, ok so winded george is a buff, but what can we do with it? what are our shenanigans? just becuase she doesn't have any flat out buff doesnt mean she doesnt have some hidden bufffs in her new stuff, i'm just getting really tired of the whining and complaining, i hate it too, but fuck, how long will it be before everyone here is done with that nonsense, even the Noel players are moving on and working w/ her, i'm certainly gaining more and more reasons to switch at an alarming rate...
GenoWhirl Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Frog + Lobelia + Wind seems to be a valid zonig, since if they try to stawmp the frog they should get hit by the lobelia, if they just guard we get time thanks to George, and if they jump well...George is below them, isn't he? While they are blocking we should be able to get Pumpkin out right?
Konton Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Frog + Lobelia + Wind seems to be a valid zonig, since if they try to stawmp the frog they should get hit by the lobelia, if they just guard we get time thanks to George, and if they jump well...George is below them, isn't he? While they are blocking we should be able to get Pumpkin out right? But is getting the pumpkin out worth it? It's not very good this time around and I'd think it might be better to set up some more poles between the opponent and myself. At least then you can stall their approach with sword/air iris and possibly set down another frog and keep stalling. Time out tactics ftw.
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 i think pumpkin still has it's uses, after blocking george distance yourself summon a pumpkin and throw an A lobelia, after that i really dont know
GenoWhirl Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 what exactly can be done after an A lobelia? If anything fails we can wind ourselves to the air lol
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 what exactly can be done after an A lobelia? If anything fails we can wind ourselves to the air lol we have a wall of lightning in front of us....i guess we keep throwing...and when they come in half a second later w/o a problem wind yourself away and activate all the poles....and repeat....
choysauce Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 does the opponent have to block different ways if they're blocking george and we switch sides?? we could try some cross up shenanigans and lvl3 j.2c, cancel into 236a if its blocked? it'll knock off a primer at least usually if i get them in blockstun with george while i'm close, i'll go for two 4b's to get some guard primers knocked out . hopefully they just block low to hit confirm a regular combo with 5b. TK air iris might be useful for corner pressure if you're throwing the A lobelias in there. and i dunno if this'll be useful but it's something i've been trying to use against CT nu's to get closer really quickly. j. 3d, 66b it gives a nice angle and its pretty quick i think it'd be hard to react to. could be really useful in conjunction with george since they'll probably be more concerned about getting george out of the way rather than see what you'll do from far away.
Tari Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 does the opponent have to block different ways if they're blocking george and we switch sides?? we could try some cross up shenanigans and lvl3 j.2c, cancel into 236a if its blocked? it'll knock off a primer at least usually if i get them in blockstun with george while i'm close, i'll go for two 4b's to get some guard primers knocked out . hopefully they just block low to hit confirm a regular combo with 5b. TK air iris might be useful for corner pressure if you're throwing the A lobelias in there. and i dunno if this'll be useful but it's something i've been trying to use against CT nu's to get closer really quickly. j. 3d, 66b it gives a nice angle and its pretty quick i think it'd be hard to react to. could be really useful in conjunction with george since they'll probably be more concerned about getting george out of the way rather than see what you'll do from far away. If I recall correctly, they don't have to switch their blocking direction, as they're in blockstun for the entire duration of George's electricity. Once it ends, they have to switch, but they have ages to do that. I tend to go for 4b 2b 4b or 5a 2a 2b 4b or something in the hopes of landing a hit. 'course, it's a crappy way to start a combo, but meh, at least it's safe for as long as George is going. Also, against certain characters j.3d 66b (or IAD 3d, I'm assuming) doesn't work so well. Hakumen, for example, can j.c, 4c, or 2c you out of it, and Lamda can 6d you out of it (and I actually tend to find that just running in works better against her in some cases). It does work, though.
God_Of_Olympus Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 5B j.2D 2B i think it's a pretty valid mixup, crappy yeah but replace the j.2D with 3D and then j.B and we've got...something...dont know if being that close or attempting a mixup is even smart anymore though..
choysauce Posted December 26, 2009 Posted December 26, 2009 5B j.2D 2B i think it's a pretty valid mixup, crappy yeah but replace the j.2D with 3D and then j.B and we've got...something...dont know if being that close or attempting a mixup is even smart anymore though.. you might as well go for 3c, i think it's kind of a waste of wind how safe is 3c on block? usually people keep blocking for me after i do 3c (3 hits) then 5b. 3[c] is unsafe on block right?
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