GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[Zakuta Asura]

Funnily enough, the P tier is spot on =p

[Lucy Boy]

i-no's been in p tier for a looong time. Xb imma give some slayer shit. + huge damage combos that can bring you all the way to the other side of the screen and always end up in knockdown. + great abare too, seeing as how his normals got so frickin amazing now, notably his kicks. any normal that hits you, slayer can link into another normal for COMBO. + and on that note, his links give him a great variety of options for pressure or combos. + big bang upper. + i'll quote wirya on this: dead on time is absolute bullshit. you'll get paranoid when he's got 50% tension. + feints are gimmicky, but meh. +/- BDC's gotten real iffy. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. - poor space control and not the best range. - has this poor excuse of a potemkin buster, with virtually no followups if your opponent knows how to mash.

[HolyOrderChipp]

I have a simple question about the tiers. I've read that a while back, when the game was newer, HOS was always regarded as top tier. Now, everyone says he's mid-tier. My question is, what attributes made him seem high-tiered before, and what changed, either discoveries about other characters, or perceptions about HOS, that made him fall down so far? I'm just curious.

[Kayin Nasaki]

He gained so much stuff it was crazy -- follow that up with people watching videos of kaqn playing him, it sort of over hyped his changes. Also yeah, people realized a lot of other characters were REALLY good.

[WUT]

...My question is, what attributes made him seem high-tiered before, and what changed, either discoveries about other characters, or perceptions about HOS, that made him fall down so far? I'm just curious.

The vids that first showcased Charge Cancelling and Fafnir made HOS seem like an offensive juggernaut. Fafnir did absurd damage, was a low, was huge AND launched for a follow-up, and CC seemed like potential infinite frame advantage pressure and crazy combo opportunities. I remember one video in particular featuring repeated use of 5S(f) CC pressure received quite a few comments from people here on Dust Loop stating that HOS was just plain broke. Those two offensive additions, coupled with the new gradually depleting nature of the Charge bar and the ability to use Level 1 moves while maintaining Level 2/3 Charge meant that HOS could save his combo-friendly specials for when he finally opened up an opponent's guard instead of wasting tension/charge trying to score a hit.

All that hype changed once the JPs started working everything out and ^C hit consoles. People were able to fully examine, firsthand, each character's buffs and nerfs. As it turned out, CC and Fafnir were good, but they weren't stupidly good. HOS still has his weakness to being zoned, *needing* to be in close for his offense, and the characters he had bad match-ups against (Faust, Testament, Zappa) received mostly buffs. All these factors mean that HOS is a solid character, but he's in the same general "can compete but doesn't have an obvious or easy advantage" mid-tier range that half the cast is sitting in.

[HolyOrderChipp]

Does the fact that these things were discovered early mean HOS is particularly easy to play? And, are AC characters so much more powerful than slash ones that people thought HOS would own just because they were playing characters as they would in slash?

[Shoto]

Ok, this is the translation of a German translation from a short Tougeki Damashii article that mentions a few tierlist changes (thanks to "Weisskreuz" from our Geman community board for the Japanese to German translation^^).

Sadly there is no new list and I have no Idea on which list these changes refer too (or if there even was a definite list to refer to :P).

------------------

Until now Eddie, Baiken and Testament were considered S Class, followed by Jam, Sol, Pot, Slayer and May. Thanks to the PSII Version which allowed playing and experimenting at home there were some changes in the ranks:

Characters that gone up:

Slayer is now 3rd place after Eddie and Testa; Pot gone up to the Top Characters. Furthermore Jam, ABA, Chipp, Anji and Venom have gone up in the list too.

Characters that gone down:

Baiken gone done a little bit as well as May, Dizzy and Axl.

Reasons given:

Pot: If slidehead hits he can control the flow of the match very well. "Gaiganticbritt" -> "aerial Potemkinbuster" is a threat, raising his abare potential.

Jam: better Okizeme

ABA. Some "Power" or "Force" has gotten better (problems with translation) ..maybe they refer to her mohora mode..

Chipp, Anji, Venom:

Better combos

Baiken: No reason given, maybe just got down due to other charas getting up^^

May: Her tactics are now more explored, making her less a thread. Furthermore as only few people play her she gets not that much explored..

Axl, Dizzy

(again problems with translation) something about them having a bad defence..

[Oiboi]

Hm, I notice Zappa isn't in that list. Well, seeing as how no ones done one for Zappa, I'll put in my two cents: Pros: +New Unsummon FB helps control the match more appropriately. +"Timed" Summon allows some control for which summon you will get. +New P Ghost toss greatly enhances the ability to control the screen (As many characters could simply stay out of range or use projectiles to stop a toss). +New Air Sword move (j.236HS) and FRC's open up more combo opportunities and big damage. +Dog Chaining helps maintain pressure and damage. +Still has massive amount of invulnerable frames and awkward fighting style, and small size helps him get around attacks. +New Raoh hit properties and 2 new Darkness Anthem attacks help apply pressure and do combos more effectively. +Weight and size force other characters to make specific combos to fight him. Cons: -Average defense and 'easy' to combo (depending on character and experience) can really hurt him if they hit him. -Many moves leave him open to counterattacks (Last Edguy, naked 5HS and 6HS, etc.). -Still mostly situational. Sword can only deal proper damage off counterhit; Ghosts don't deal a lot of damage. Tension is more important now. -Some characters can do very effective loops on him. -Varied Matchups. Mostly even now, but can have major trouble against certain characters (Slayer, Dizzy, Potemkin of course, etc.) I think that about does it. Some of the other Zappa players might have more to add, but this is my general idea of it.

[tolore]

zappa has nice high low mixup and pretty good cross ups as well. and unless it changed(or i'm wrong) he has the fastest dust in the game.

[Sytha]

Dust Speeds according to Frame data. 16 Frames:Dragon Install Sol 20 Frames:Robo Ky, Goku Moroha A.B.A 22 Frames:Raoh, Moroha A.B.A, Sol, Order Sol, Slayer 23 Frames:Ky, A.B.A, Venom 24 Frames:Jam, Zappa, Eddie 25 Frames:Anji, Baiken, I-no, Chipp, Millia 26 Frames:Faust, May, Axl 27 Frames:Dizzy 28 Frames:Bridget, Johnny 29 Frames:Testament, Potemkin Eh... Not quite. I cant Believe that Rky has a 20 frame Dust tho. That seems so off. Filled out the rest of the List. And Damn... a lot of characters must've had their dusts sped up from Slash.

[Henaki]

man dusts are fucking slow, i thought the faster ones were like 15 frames

[Dr. Stormlocke]

I cant Believe that Rky has a 20 frame Dust tho. That seems so off.

It's 2 frames faster than it used to be. Nice little buff for him in AC.

[excelence]

OMG ... Jam's 1 frame slower than Ky (O_o)!!! never notice that

[Doren2k]

Damn how do niggas be getting hit by my dust. I guess im so elite they forget how to block dust.

[rtl42]

the other important factor in visually confirming 5D is the number of distinct animation sprites that make up the overall move. Jam's dust is just a flick of her wrist -- she's barely moving =\

[ryokoalways]

Under enough pressure and conditioning, Jam's dust looks very much like her 6h.

[AtTheGates]

Under enough pressure and conditioning, Jam's dust looks very much like her 6h.

yes, and thats the reason why you SHOULDN'T get hit by it in the first place - since you would want to slashback or instant block her 6hs anyway.

[Henaki]

POTEMKIN: PROS - Has Potemkin Buster Has Air Potemkin Buster (it is Potemkin Buster in the air) Has really hard to escape unblockable setups Does a lot of damage Does a lot of stun High defense (High guts rating and highest natural defense) Best backdash in the game A very varied mixup game, with lots of mixups for different ranges (Slide head, pot buster, 6k, dust, 2D, 6HS) Long pokes Heavenly Potemkin Buster (it's Potemkin Buster but sends you, to heaven!) A variety of counter moves for various situations (FDB, Heat, Judge Gauntlet, Slide Head, Megafist, Hammerfall) Gains assshits of tension in a matter of seconds. Coolest instant kill He falls really fast (cannot be juggled in ways others can be) Good, if somewhat slow anti-airs (Heat, 6P, heavenly, 2hs, backdash) CONS - Slow (Has no good answer to frame traps besides sitting there and poor mobility) Big (Combos work on him that don't work on others, and he can be pressured in ways others cant be) Only 2 decent reversals His pokes, while good, are easy to punish since he has no weapon. Requires above average tension usage for sometimes negligable or no benefits

[Henaki]

slightly less funny pros cons so its actually worthwhile

POTEMKIN:

+Has Potemkin Buster

+Does a LOT of damage

+Can quickly dizzy the opponent

+High defense (High guts rating and highest natural defense)

+Best backdash in the game

+A very varied mixup game, with lots of mixups for different ranges (High/low, strike/throw unblockable/escape tagging)

+Long pokes

+Enormous tension gain

+Good, if somewhat slow anti-airs (Heat, 6P, heavenly, 2hs, backdash)

-Slow, this is probably his biggest weakness, he has very poor mobility and most of his non Potemkin Buster moves start slowly.

-Big, so hes a combo/pressure target

-Poor reversals.

-His pokes have a large hittable box

[Makubex]

Little to no benefits? IF you do HK and you have 45% tension. The oppoent already lost. Setup unblockable over and over and the person loses. How is that little to no benefits?

[Henaki]

because its escapable regardless it doesnt matter that much because you can throw away tension on the dumbest shit anyway since you gain it so fast not really a huge weakness so ill get rid of it did you not notice good potemkins barely unblockable anymore? its beacuse everyone japan can escape it already.

[FlashMetroid]

some characters literally cant do anything about it

[tolore]

Dust Speeds according to Frame data.

16 Frames:Dragon Install Sol

20 Frames:Robo Ky, Goku Moroha A.B.A

22 Frames:Raoh, Moroha A.B.A, Sol, Order Sol, Slayer

23 Frames:Ky, A.B.A, Venom

24 Frames:Jam, Zappa, Eddie

25 Frames:Anji, Baiken, I-no, Chipp, Millia

26 Frames:Faust, May, Axl

27 Frames:Dizzy

28 Frames:Bridget, Johnny

29 Frames:Testament, Potemkin

Eh...

Not quite.

I cant Believe that Rky has a 20 frame Dust tho. That seems so off.

Filled out the rest of the List. And Damn... a lot of characters must've had their dusts sped up from Slash.

wow RKY's did speed up quite a bit, i guess Raoh's dust is still way up there though.

[Hellmonkey]

some characters literally cant do anything about it

besides burst and deadangle?

[FlashMetroid]

besides burst and deadangle?

im pretty sure theres a couple who cant even dead angle lol

but yeah

Jam

Pros

Retarded damage potential

Pixie with non pixie defense(shes mobile, with fast pokes, and doesnt take stupid damage)

2 Great FBs(puffball is easily top 3 move in the game)

1 of the best grab games in the game

1 of the best mixup games in the game

Her parry is amazing

6HS is one of the most useful pokes in the game

She doesnt have to set up shit all day for damage

She completely shuts down the WHOLE CAST air game

Cons

She has to get in

Everything is situational(this isnt really a con its just something that makes her harder then people give her credit for)

In other words if your not trying to keep Jam away...your gonna lose