[CS2] Noel Changelog Loketest 1-5

[Bolverk-GTM]

5C > 6B ?

Does that mean i can follow up with 3C and then proceed with whatever combo from that now ?

That's what it looks like. Noel looks like she's turning into CT Ragna, EVERY IMPORTANT NORMAL GOES INTO EVERY OTHER IMPORTANT NORMAL. From the looks of things, her pressure will be far more disgusting now. There used to be only one Noel that flatout terrified me and that was dragontamer's Noel, NOW I think with how crazy her pressure will most likely be in CS2, a very small list of Noel players that scare me when they beat me to pressuring will develop. Mirror matches are going to be like samurai duels back in feudal Japan, the person that strikes quicker wins.

[bmore303]

I hate current mirror matches with noel.

Whoever didn't 5D, loses.

Both 5D? Did you go first? You lose.

The rest is blocking slow block strings and not getting throw reject missed or CH with 3C or leaving an open string for 4D fatal. Gah, Noel mirrors make me want to run Arakune instead.

[LunaKage]

I hate current mirror matches with noel.

Whoever didn't 5D, loses.

Both 5D? Did you go first? You lose.

The rest is blocking slow block strings and not getting throw reject missed or CH with 3C or leaving an open string for 4D fatal. Gah, Noel mirrors make me want to run Arakune instead.

2D is the bane of Noel's existence, it goes over everything she does, it even beats 2D...

Figure that one out.

[Chiizu]

Simple, if you see a 5D, 2D CH him. If you see a 2D, 5D CH him. The one who presses the goddamn magic button first loses.

Well, that's good and all but i can't do that to save my own life. I utterly suck at Noel mirrors.

[LunaKage]

Simple, if you see a 5D, 2D CH him. If you see a 2D, 5D CH him. The one who presses the goddamn magic button first loses.

Well, that's good and all but i can't do that to save my own life. I utterly suck at Noel mirrors.

Honestly you are better off blocking 2D, 5D can be countered with 5D though.

[Arcknight]

Is there any chance that 5c > jc(9) > j.4d would work as a valid cross up now? I've messed around with it in training and it's far too slow right now but with improved speed it might be neat.

[Chiizu]

Yeah there probably is. 5C is so going to make my day in CS2.

[Konton]

I just spam 6c to CH drive happy Noels.

[Bolverk-GTM]

I just spam 6c to CH drive happy Noels.

I LIKE THIS GUY! Brilliant minds that don't take online seriously think alike.

6C got blocked? Cancel into B+C and purple throw them, the poor bastard won't see it coming! If they do, then congrats to them for being half competent and above the average online player.

6C hit them? TAKE THEM FOR A RIDE ON HAIDA EXPRESS!

[GenoWhirl]

2Dの当たり判定増加

2D has more hitstop now?

[LunaKage]

2Dの当たり判定増加

2D has more hitstop now?

If this is true I consider it more of a buff.

Sure it will make punishing a blocked 2D easier, but if you weren't getting punished for it already you're fighting the wrong people. This is going to make hitconfirming Anti-air 2D > Spring raid easier, and it's going to be easier to hit confirm whether or not you crossed your opponent up.

[Konton]

I LIKE THIS GUY! Brilliant minds that don't take online seriously think alike.

6C got blocked? Cancel into B+C and purple throw them, the poor bastard won't see it coming! If they do, then congrats to them for being half competent and above the average online player.

6C hit them? TAKE THEM FOR A RIDE ON HAIDA EXPRESS!

I have a hard time taking BlazBlue seriously as a whole, but perhaps this pessimism is largely a consequence of the direction they went with CS1. I understand that character balance is hard to maintain at the highest level of play, but I really shouldn't have to worry about other people who don't even understand the fundamentals landing godly disjointed pokes into half my health as often as I do.

[LunaKage]

I have a hard time taking BlazBlue seriously as a whole, but perhaps this pessimism is largely a consequence of the direction they went with CS1. I understand that character balance is hard to maintain at the highest level of play, but I really shouldn't have to worry about other people who don't even understand the fundamentals landing godly disjointed pokes into half my health as often as I do.

If I were a more experienced mod, I would award you for this post.

I fucking hate any character who can 5B into a damaging BnB, especially when the fact that if you block the 5B > next hit of combo, it's pressure, easy mode fucking pressure.

On Topic: I do believe they are going the right direction with CS2, this is obviously just speculation, but they are trying to remove ridiculous loops, and are trying to prevent jump-outs from being too powerful.

Now if only they can improve the Noel Vs. Tager match-up.

[Konton]

Hopefully the 2d hitstop buff extends into a corresponding blockstun improvement. Chain Revolver is looking a little lack-luster this time around. Not that I'm complaining, with the normal buffs and all =p

[Chiizu]

If this is true I consider it more of a buff.

Sure it will make punishing a blocked 2D easier, but if you weren't getting punished for it already you're fighting the wrong people. This is going to make hitconfirming Anti-air 2D > Spring raid easier, and it's going to be easier to hit confirm whether or not you crossed your opponent up.

If you hit them low enough with 2D i think you can use d.5D as a hitconfirm before going into Spring Raid. I don't know which one does more damage but it helps quite a bit for hit confirming.

[Sahgren]

Noel vs Tager was technically 6-4 in Noel's favor when she had decent normals and didn't have to take huge risks in order to hurt the opponent. The changes in CS2 (IB nerf, improved Noel normals/pressure) should make things better.

The fact that we have to change up our playstyle against him, making it feel like it's harder than it actually is, is probably never gonna change though:psyduck:

[dragontamer]

Noel vs Tager was technically 6-4 in Noel's favor when she had decent normals and didn't have to take huge risks in order to hurt the opponent. The changes in CS2 (IB nerf, improved Noel normals/pressure) should make things better.

The fact that we have to change up our playstyle against him, making it feel like it's harder than it actually is, is probably never gonna change though:psyduck:

With the IB nurf, I'm kinda scared of Tager actually. I'm going to actually have to punish the startup of his attacks instead of IB -> 5A -> punishment. Granted, its a better game because IB -> 5A is kinda brain-dead, so I'm not really complaining.

Anyway, Tager vs Noel has to be a good matchup for Tager. Grapplers need to be king of close-range combat or else Tager won't have any hope as a character. Its a necessary evil if they want this game to be reasonably balanced.

[TransientFaith]

Loketest 5:

+ Noel confirmed to be "Scary"

Pretty subjective "change", makes me wonder if anyone will pick her up or consider it because of it though "kitty"

[LunaKage]

Pretty subjective "change", makes me wonder if anyone will pick her up or consider it because of it though "kitty"

Just figured I'd throw it in, we need all the hope we can get.

[Konton]

With the IB nurf, I'm kinda scared of Tager actually. I'm going to actually have to punish the startup of his attacks instead of IB -> 5A -> punishment. Granted, its a better game because IB -> 5A is kinda brain-dead, so I'm not really complaining.

Anyway, Tager vs Noel has to be a good matchup for Tager. Grapplers need to be king of close-range combat or else Tager won't have any hope as a character. Its a necessary evil if they want this game to be reasonably balanced.

Never really troubled me as a match-up.

*Fish for 5b counter hits at range and focus on solid footsies.

*Throw around the ever so meaty 6c to catch backdash and/or sledge.

*Jump -> j.b counter hit into haida on throw/distortion anticipation.

*5aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

*6a when he gets annoyed and starts jumping

Just don't guess wrong because of massive punishes!

If the j.b hitbox is changed and other normals are now "scary" then we'll have one seriously massive hit-box chump to fuck around with.

[dragontamer]

Never really troubled me as a match-up.

*Fish for 5b counter hits at range and focus on solid footsies.

Easier said than done. 5B has terrible hurtbox and all of Tager's attacks have good disjointed hitboxes. 5B has a larger hurtbox than its hitbox. Personally speaking, I think Tager has the advantage at 5B's effective distance.

*Throw around the ever so meaty 6c to catch backdash and/or sledge.

5A is safer. Whiff a 6C and you'll be eating a combo into Gadget Finger from Tager. 5A is easy to hitconfirm and offers more options on block. There's a lot less guesswork involved with 5A dash-ins in the corner, despite the significantly lower damage.

EDIT: Just checked: it appears that 5AAAAA will always beat backdash 360A. 5AAAA's smallest hole (even on whiff) is 5 Frames. Backdash -> 360A has a 6 frame window where it can be punished. 66C on the other hand can lose to backdash 360A (if the backdash was timed correctly)

*Jump -> j.b counter hit into haida on throw/distortion anticipation.

j.4D Fatal combo does more damage and is easier when Tager whiffs his throws. Failing that, j.C Counter -> Haida does more damage as well.

*5aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Agreed.

*6a when he gets annoyed and starts jumping

If you fail to guess the j.2C you get punished. 4D is a safer anti-air vs Tager.

If the j.b hitbox is changed and other normals are now "scary" then we'll have one seriously massive hit-box chump to fuck around with.

Lets not get overoptimistic here

******************

The only BBCS2 advice I can give is this...

5A 6A 2B 6A 2B 6A 6B.

Hitconfirm into 2B -> 6A -> 6C -> j.D -> stuff.

Tager's crouching hitbox gets hit by 6A, so learn your 6A pressure. Plus, its good practice for BBCS2 2B -> 6A reverse gatling pressure strings screw with a lot of Tagers.

******************

Anyway, my point is that a quick short-range defensive counter-based character should lose to a grappler. Then again, if Noel gets 5B Hitbox buff (CT Disjointed hitbox please), she wouldn't be a "short-range defensive character" anymore and can go ahead and kick Tager's ass

Edited November 29, 2010 by dragontamer

[LunaKage]

Alright guys, alot of constructive discussion going on, but we have a thread for this topic: Noel Vs. Tager

I do appreciate that you guys at least included SOME on topic notes, but try to keep match-up discussions out of this thread.

[Mizzet]

So 5c combos into 6b now? On the most recent summary update on that Japanese blog with the loketest changes, I noticed 5c > 6b was just listed like that, no mention of a gattling or anything unlike the 5c > 2c and 5b > 2b entries. It also doesn't have the "cannot re-input 5c" bit which you would expect from the looks of Noel's other new gattlings.

If it does combo it would be pretty huge I reckon, I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Mizzet

[LunaKage]

So 5c combos into 6b now? On the most recent summary update on that Japanese blog with the loketest changes, I noticed 5c > 6b was just listed like that, no mention of a gattling or anything unlike the 5c > 2c and 5b > 2b entries. It also doesn't have the "cannot re-input 5c" bit which you would expect from the looks of Noel's other new gattlings.

If it does combo it would be pretty huge I reckon, I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

If it combos that would be amazing, but if the hitstun on 5C was that huge we could just go right into 3C.

I still see it as just a new gatling, the reason why it doesn't say "Cannot re-input 5C" is because 6B never gatling'd into 5C to begin with

[BmastaG]

lets see noels string could be

5a>5a>2a>2b>5b>5c>6b>6c(might whiff)>2c

yay for slightly longer blockstring (hoping this isnt the only reason shes scary)

I REALLY REALLY hope i can connect a 3c>22c>66C after a blockstring that long that would be so boss