[CS2] Noel Changelog Loketest 1-5

[SkyKing]

Well then, looks like my idea is out the window. Good thing, too. Let's hope ASW doesn't mess this up and actually have an identity with her. 4k+ sounds like a good place to start.

Wondering now just on her normals in general. Slight buffs, sure, but moreso on specifics.

Edited November 17, 2010 by SkyKing

[LunaKage]

So uh

apparently

Noel mashing midscreen for 4.2k

She could get 4.2 midscreen off of 3C and FC4D in CS1, so maybe her combos weren't nerfed as bad as we thought.

[HexaNoid]

I wonder if that's a haida-less combo. If it is, I have renewed faith.

[LunaKage]

I wonder if that's a haida-less combo. If it is, I have renewed faith.

Haida sucks in CS2, and the combos I'm talking about from CS1 are both haidaless.

[ThunderboltZ28]

I wonder if that's a haida-less combo. If it is, I have renewed faith.

Well if I recall correctly Haida was taken out of CSII.

[GenoWhirl]

They didn't say sexy combo

they said mashing

[LunaKage]

They didn't say sexy combo

they said mashing

It's Noel, no matter what she is doing, people call it mashing.

[GenoWhirl]

It's true so it hurts :sadface:

Noel buffs make me happy always. Maybe my secret training mode sessions will get some sub use (But then again, I also practice with Jin, Ragna, Makoto, blah blah )

[SkyKing]

If that's mashing, what'll her actually combos end up doing? 6k+, oki, and meter?

[LunaKage]

If that's mashing, what'll her actually combos end up doing? 6k+, oki, and meter?

I swear if Noel becomes top tier, no one will be safe, and we will need 3 Noel mods.

[dragontamer]

The only thing I can't think of for BBCS2 is midscreen clean 5D on crouching opponent. (On standing opponent, you can combo into 214A)

The best I can do is 5D -> d.6A -> d.6C -> 236D Rapid -> 66C -> j.D -> d.6D -> stuff. But that requires heat...

But every other combo (Haida-less 3C, midscreen 5D, etc. etc.) has an adequate replacement (ie: similar damage + Oki. Maybe ~10% less damage or so, but you get the Oki and a reasonable amount of damage...)

-------------

EDIT: wait, what? We got good news for Noel?

Thats it, I'm switching characters. I need my low tier news ftw.

[HexaNoid]

If that's the case, maybe it's a good thing they haven't touched her since the 3rd loketest.

Slightly better drive + normals as well as adequate replacements for existing combos doesn't sound like too bad of a deal.

[LunaKage]

The only thing I can't think of for BBCS2 is midscreen clean 5D on crouching opponent. (On standing opponent, you can combo into 214A)

The best I can do is 5D -> d.6A -> d.6C -> 236D Rapid -> 66C -> j.D -> d.6D -> stuff. But that requires heat...

I'm not sure what you were going for with all of this, but just as a heads up, if you throw in a d.5D after d.6C you can combo into 66C without heat.

[dragontamer]

I'm not sure what you were going for with all of this, but just as a heads up, if you throw in a d.5D after d.6C you can combo into 66C without heat.

I thought 623D -> 66C doesn't work in BBCS2 ? I'm working under that assumption.

EDIT: and I'm just being silly... just thinking about BBCS2-style combos in BBCS1 to kinda predict how Noel will play without Haida, 623D 66C link and similar.

[GenoWhirl]

I dunno

5D > d.6A > d.6C > d.6D > d.5C > j.D > d.4D > BLOOM TRIGGER for like 3k and corner carry :I

There are probably better combos though me sucks

Edited November 17, 2010 by GenoWhirl

[Chiizu]

22b 6D combos are going to be so hot. They already are but no haida loop makes it the best way to get damage off 3C midscreen in CS2, and it's going to be easier to do with 22c bouncing higher. Let's just hope 22B nerfs don't make that brilliant combo useless.

[dragontamer]

I dunno

5D > d.6A > d.6C > d.6D > d.5C > j.D > d.4D > BLOOM TRIGGER for like 3k and corner carry :I

There are probably better combos though me sucks

d.5C -> jump cancel doesn't work in BBCS2 apparently.

[LunaKage]

22b 6D combos are going to be so hot. They already are but no haida loop makes it the best way to get damage off 3C midscreen in CS2, and it's going to be easier to do with 22c bouncing higher. Let's just hope 22B nerfs don't make that brilliant combo useless.

Also note, the timing for 22B > 6D is extremely strict, I have yet to get it to connect without fatal. A good replacement though, which I have messed with since CT, is 22B > 66 > 2B > 6C. If 2B doesn't prorate the combo to hell, and we space just right, we could still have a functional haida loop, because as I recall 22C is the one with same move proration. So we could possibly: 3C > 22C > 66C > 22B > 662B > 6C > 22B > 662B > 6C > etc.

[GenoWhirl]

d.5C -> jump cancel doesn't work in BBCS2 apparently.

>my face

[Chiizu]

It isn't really strict but the thing is, you have to catch your opponent with 66C while he is pretty high for it to connect, Noel's shoulders or above, or else it will miss. I find it relatively easy to do it on characters with long horizontal hitboxes such as Rachel, Bang, Jin, Tager and Arakune but it's much more chalenging to link it on Ragna, and i'm not even thinking about Tsubaki or Hazama.

In the end it's very spacing dependant. That's the main reason i use haida more often than this combo, even though i find it classier and more damaging than a non-optimal haida loop, as it's much easier to find the right distance to haida loop.

Also, you idea seems pretty interesting but i already find it hard enough to haida loop, 662b is just too difficult for me, especially since you have to dash the dight distance or you will be too close for 22B to connect on certain characters. When that happens, i guess 6C throw cancel would do the trick to gain distance but then again proration...

Edited November 17, 2010 by Chiizu

[dsmoove12]

I read that drive 5D can't be jump canceled and doesn't work.....which is true? O.o

[Sahgren]

Edit: DSM beat me to it.

[Mizzet]

Noel

* Mashing midscreen into 4200 damage. Oh boy.

So what does this mean? It's pretty vague. I must say I'm rather curious how you would break 4k without JC'able d.5c, either way I suppose it can only be good.

[Chiizu]

d.5D was never jump cancellable to begin with so d.5C losing its jump cancellability would make more sense. Most likely, there was a typing error so don't get your hopes up.

And considering the changes, 4.2k midscreen is intriguing indeed, especially since her overall damage was reduced.

[dragontamer]

Also note, the timing for 22B > 6D is extremely strict, I have yet to get it to connect without fatal. A good replacement though, which I have messed with since CT, is 22B > 66 > 2B > 6C. If 2B doesn't prorate the combo to hell, and we space just right, we could still have a functional haida loop, because as I recall 22C is the one with same move proration. So we could possibly: 3C > 22C > 66C > 22B > 662B > 6C > 22B > 662B > 6C > etc.

Haida loop isn't the end-all be all. The point of the loop is damage and Oki, not to do a haida loop for the hell of it.

If Drives have similar damage and proration in BBCS2, then there will be little reason to do a Haida loop in BBCS2. Its already pretty borderline in BBCS1. 22B has a damage / proration ratio of 6625 (ie: if you did an infinite-hit combo with 22BBBBBBB, it would do 6625 damage). On the other hand, most of Noel's Drives have damage/proration ratios of 5000+. 4D and d.4D has 8750, 2D and d.2D has 8750, and 6D / d.6D has 6545. Same Move proration is somewhat negated by the fact that we've learned to do combos with every single drive attack.

The haida loop itself doesn't even have a damage proration ratio of 6625, because 66C (hit 1) is the weakest link with a ratio of 4090. All together, 22B 22BC 66C has a damage/proration ratio of closer to ~6000.

Basically, Noel's Drives have such good proration / damage, any long drive combo should do high damage anyway. If the Haida loop is nurfed, then there simply won't be a reason to use it. We'll have easier combos that do more damage.

Edited November 18, 2010 by dragontamer