Osuna Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 If it's CS1, I'll definitely win evo (!!!) PNW will of course be a strong force again, as will west coast. If the south's best players show up, it'll be pretty interesting. Normally when I play against Tager, I feel like weak Tager's are too random, and strong Tager's feel like they're too smart, so I like staying away from them. I go for hits, and Litchi can do it. Tager's pressure is pretty strong, and it sucks when I get magnetized and escape because he can still do stuff to pull me back, so I feel like I have to hit him quickly, which leads to that same unpleasant situation that I described before.I'm hoping for a good turn out too, much more fun that way. Then again CS2 would be fun, in its own way. I actually notice a lot of litchis, even some otherwise quite good ones, seem to be pretty bothered by magnetism. I wonder of there is some more scientific way of describing how that happens. Perhaps it has something to do with certain specific distances under magnetism. I wonder if the changes to 5D magnetism will interfere with that chemistry a little. Ponder ponder ponder.
natearistata Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Does using itsuu carry that much of a risk? I've played a couple Litchi's that just book it and spam itsuu from mid-3/4 screen after getting magnetized and I don't really know what to do about it.
Coopa Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Does using itsuu carry that much of a risk? I've played a couple Litchi's that just book it and spam itsuu from mid-3/4 screen after getting magnetized and I don't really know what to do about it. IB, spark bolt. Anyway, LK. If we both go to Evo, let's money match for dinner.
natearistata Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 nah, I mean they just go into stance, then cancel it, then go into it, over and over.
Lord Knight Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 > Tager pressure > strong I just can't wrap my mind around this concept. Shouldn't underestimate him once he gets in. Does using itsuu carry that much of a risk? I've played a couple Litchi's that just book it and spam itsuu from mid-3/4 screen after getting magnetized and I don't really know what to do about it. If she guard points your 5D, cancel into sledge - they have to hold the guard point to win. It's the sorta 2/4th screen range that's tough for Litchi if she's magnetized. Long range isn't the problem when you're magnetized, it's the midrange.
MiraclePizza Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) nah, I mean they just go into stance, then cancel it, then go into it, over and over. Stance has some recovery no lie. Also it lets you walk forward a little. If you're ready for the Ittsu followup and block it on reaction you'll likely IB it anyway in which case you can punish with Spark Bolt if you're really far or possibly 5D if she's magnetized/close enough. Edit2: real edit this time Edited February 8, 2011 by MiraclePizza
Dacidbro Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Lord Knight, could you give an in depth critique of this video, if you have time? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y72cTX0Gi8k
Airk Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I actually notice a lot of litchis, even some otherwise quite good ones, seem to be pretty bothered by magnetism. I wonder of there is some more scientific way of describing how that happens. Perhaps it has something to do with certain specific distances under magnetism. I wonder if the changes to 5D magnetism will interfere with that chemistry a little. Ponder ponder ponder. Magnetism screws with people's spacing and sense of space. What is normally a "safe" buffer zone around them is no longer safe, because a bunch of random moves now pull in. Most people are not comfortable just STAYING next to Tager - they want to land a combo and get out to reset to a neutral game where they have the advantage, and magnetism makes it much harder to do so. As LK says, it's not a problem at fullscreen, but at the range where non-zoning characters like to engage Tager - midscreen poking range, generally - is right where magnetism makes life awkward. It limits your options, and makes it easier for Tager to get a read on you. Which makes people want to back out to fullscreen until magnetism wears off, which makes them predictable, as well as more vulnerable to collider yomi, due to pull, etc. The advantage is probably psychologically bigger than it 'really' is in gameplay, but that's true for a lot of stuff. Especially Tager stuff. :P
mAc Chaos Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Shouldn't underestimate him once he gets in. I'm not. I'm just not sure where you're getting this idea. Sure, he can win the round when he finally gets in, but it's still not some overwhelming force in Tager's favor when he gets in. Bang has strong pressure. Litchi has strong pressure. Carl has strong pressure. Jin and Ragna have good pressure. But Tager? Not compared to those guys. Not even compared to everyone else unless you're counting zoners. You can't make any judgement of quality in this game without it being relative to the rest of the cast. Maybe not terrible pressure, but strong is just stretching it. Maybe I'm underestimating Tager... but I don't think so. It seems like the biggest gripes for Tager is that for a grappler he isn't even very good up close. (It isn't that he has a hard time getting in; a grappler is SUPPOSED to have that as a problem.) I remember Henaki making a lot of points about how a grappler is supposed to be the king of his range, but Tager is lacking, so if he actually had strong pressure then that wouldn't be the case. Edited February 8, 2011 by mAc Chaos
CakeWasBannedd Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I'm not. I'm just not sure where you're getting this idea. Sure, he can win the round when he finally gets in, but it's still not some overwhelming force in Tager's favor when he gets in. Bang has strong pressure. Litchi has strong pressure. Carl has strong pressure. Jin and Ragna have good pressure. But Tager? Not compared to those guys. Not even compared to everyone else unless you're counting zoners. You can't make any judgement of quality in this game without it being relative to the rest of the cast. Maybe not terrible pressure, but strong is just stretching it. Maybe I'm underestimating Tager... but I don't think so. It seems like the biggest gripes for Tager is that for a grappler he isn't even very good up close. (It isn't that he has a hard time getting in; a grappler is SUPPOSED to have that as a problem.) I remember Henaki making a lot of points about how a grappler is supposed to be the king of his range, but Tager is lacking, so if he actually had strong pressure then that wouldn't be the case. tager pressure is mostly scary because people overestimate how good he is up close; they're so scared of getting 360d or 720d that they act in a predictable and panicky way, and a good tager will mess you up for acting like that. tager pressure does have a lot of holes though. for example when i fought osuna i eventually just realized "hey, i'm just going to mash jump out because eating an AC combo is a lot better than getting 360d or something else." and it worked, he couldn't do anything about it because tao has such a strong way to interrupt anything he does with j.A/j.C, or just block. simple stuff.
Nini Heart Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I like getting mag'd. Riding it to hit some tager trynna pull me with his 5D with my 3C feels ridiculously good.
FlyingVe Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Getting Mag'd is better or worse depending on character and position. Many characters can ride the mag to punish 5D or 2D (this is really easy with Makoto and Noel), while others can just run away. Litchi actually does a bit worse under mag because her pokes (while long and powerful) are a bit on the slow side, and she has a higher risk of getting CH by 5D. Also, 5D is +2 which can lead to shenannigans and makes the next poke better relative to Litchi's. Also, in my opinion Tager really only has truly solid pressure in the corner. When you take away moving backwards, alot of Tagers tricks and frame traps are much more powerful. Edited February 8, 2011 by FlyingVe
Osuna Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I didn't question it because I assumed he was referring to how, unlike with ragna especially, you can just react to tager's mix up. At man points he might be throwing out a 6 frame throw that can't be teched So his pressure is string in that you have to yomi some things, where as ragna's overheads and throw could be reasonably avoided on reaction unless he does something really fancy to get past how linear his strings and obvious his overheads are. Like a lot of the other people, I wouldn't call it good pressure, personally. That's just what I thought. Actually since this is the place, LK what does good pressure mean, regarding tager?
Dacidbro Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 The only legitimately strong mix up I've ever experienced from Tager is Gadget Slingshot.. Everything else is like a 3 way mix up where Tager has to guess the right one instead of you lol In the corner it's decent too.
Commanderoftroy Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 To get hit by any over head of tager's you have to be trained to block low for nearly an entire fight. As my dude dacid bro would say "Tager has an overhead? Now you know."
Osuna Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 To get hit by any over head of tager's you have to be trained to block low for nearly an entire fight. As my dude dacid bro would say "Tager has an overhead? Now you know."Why on earth would anyone ever use his 6B as an overhead in a block string? Even if you get them to block low you would then throw them because his overhead prorates so much you'll never get comparable damage even if it hits. His overhead doesn't even factor in unless you're doing something neat with GF RC. Ragna's entire mix up off a block string doesn't really require you to guess very often, since you can block the overheads on reaction, so I could see someone looking at pressure that forces an unreactionable mix up (Though a bad one) versus one that just gets blocked on reaction and say that there is strong pressure in having to play the mix up game. Was all I was saying. I personally wouldn't call it strong pressure, but that's all conjecture anyway. I'm sure LK will explain.
Commanderoftroy Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Haha osuna i was just making a joke at tager's expense. You can hit with his overhead when people throw it on autopilot because he lacks real block strings. 6B, 6C, to collider and ect does decent damage and its entertaining looking.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Why on earth would anyone ever use his 6B as an overhead in a block string? Meter gain...
FlyingVe Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 And stomping primers out of people. 6B>6B>6C>Bsledge>followup is hardly good, but hella fun. Especially on Carl.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Well if you want to break primers there are safer ways to do it but once you got them scared for their primers you can do more risky things.
FlyingVe Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I said it wasn't good, but it is the most satisfying way to break primers in the game.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Hmmm I prefer spark for my guard primer raping.
LordSpectreX Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Why on earth would anyone ever use his 6B as an overhead in a block string? Even if you get them to block low you would then throw them because his overhead prorates so much you'll never get comparable damage even if it hits. His overhead doesn't even factor in unless you're doing something neat with GF RC. Since when was damage the only legitimate reward for breaking someone's guard? Tager can try to do a 6B, so that they can reset them, force them to do something stupid or get them in the corner. Or. As Axy said. Get meter gain.
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