BatousaiJ Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Mhm. So I'm balling around in training mode for a good 30 minutes with Tsubaki today. Practicing the green combos. Getting a feel for her and all that. Especially my defence game. Then, after doing my first Mugen combo (Nothing flash. Just a BNB really...) I just sat down and realised that her damage output is laughable. Seriously. She's fun, unique, and I like girls with red hair. But wow. Wow. Which Mugen combo? You can do like... 6k with 1 charge mugen with the right starter. Her midscreen damage is one of the highest in the game with mugen use actually even with a 5A starter.
Errol Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) 5a proration is one of Tsubaki's notable good points. Damage is very good on some things, damage is pretty bad on others, I think. 6A, for example, you can do pretty good with if you use mugen, but otherwise, you're not looking at that much damage. Don't care much really tho. 22d is still awesome. Corner throws are pretty great.. Actually corner damage is pretty damn good off a lot of stuff. Really the main thing I want is 5b back. Just that. Not that I want to start another 'wishlist for BB3' Edited May 11, 2012 by Errol
Kiba Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 5A, 5C (and 5CC), 6C, 3C(3C), 5B(B) are all very good starters to use. Yuki if the damage seems laughable it's more than likely you began with a bad starter.
YukiBlue Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I'd say the damage is laughable because I'm only really basic now. It seems you need to put in a lot of work or punish with extreme efficiency in order to break 5K. Just day 3 musings.
Errol Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 You're not going to break 5k without using 100 heat or getting a really nice mugen combo.
BatousaiJ Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I'd say the damage is laughable because I'm only really basic now. It seems you need to put in a lot of work or punish with extreme efficiency in order to break 5K. Just day 3 musings. Yes it's true, you actually have to put in effort to win with Tsubaki. If you're not into that, you can play Ragna or Valk where you can confirm random hits to big damage and meter gain for the win.
Daedron Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I always cry when I see Derpna getting 4K from a j.A starter in the corner without meter, that shit is stupid >.> Thank god Tsu-Tsu doesn't have bullshit like that and hopefully never will. Not taking into account having to use meter or charges, since Derpna doesn't have to use any resources either :V
MashThat5A Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I always cry when I see Derpna getting 4K from a j.A starter in the corner without meter, that shit is stupid >.> Thank god Tsu-Tsu doesn't have bullshit like that and hopefully never will. Not taking into account having to use meter or charges, since Derpna doesn't have to use any resources either :V It's 6K for 50 meter! :D Yesssss, let the hate consume you.
Eshi Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 tsubaki gets some pretty berserk damage off of 22D. but damage isn't supposed to be her selling point, she exchanges it for a very versatile moveset and scary, snowballing rushdown. god I love her frame traps. it's like makoto if makoto was good.
Zeromus_X Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Tsubaki's pressure is pretty decent but she gets like, no reward for it at all unless you like, frame-trapped them with a CH 5C. So then you have like, throw, 22D setups, and a lucky 3C or 3CC hit for her only decent damage. So it's like, okay, I got damage because the opponent made a mistake and/or actually respected me...sweet. Why does her overhead prorate so much? Her jumping resets with the jBB loop or jCC fuzzies are really cool though. But you know, I wouldn't mind Tsubaki having such low damage without resources, if it wasn't so hard to get them. Her meter gain is pretty good (midscreen magic series combo is like what, 20 meter? 30+ in the corner without stock) but it feels like such a gamble to get charges in neutral without your opponent mauling you. Like against some characters like Ragna, you have to charge to get them to give a single fuck about you (if any), but then you backdash twice and get negative warning. Yeah okay Arcsys. Get ready for BB3: Tsubaki's revenge. S-Tier Baki and C-Tier Ragna.
pktazn Posted May 15, 2012 Author Posted May 15, 2012 You can do amazing things with Tsubaki but one mistake can seriously fuck you over lol. She just needs a few tweaks here and there but I'm hoping she gets that new air distortion (among other things) in BB3~ tsubaki gets some pretty berserk damage off of 22D. but damage isn't supposed to be her selling point, she exchanges it for a very versatile moveset and scary, snowballing rushdown. god I love her frame traps. it's like makoto if makoto was good. That's one of the things that I really like about Tsubaki considering you can do things a couple of different ways and still have it work, or maybe even have it work better.
Airk Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Why does her overhead prorate so much? Because apparently, making it a fatal counter(heh) makes it TOTALLY LEGIT that it's worse than just about every other overhead in the game, even ones that are tons faster. Seriously. Here are overhead prorations, chosen at random in CS2: Tsubaki 6A: 70/92 Ragna 6B: 70/92 Rachel 4B: 70/92 Litchi 6A[e]: 80/89 Bang 5C: 70/92 Mu 6B: 70/94 Makoto 6B: 80/89 Now we have the same overheads in EX: Tsubaki 6A: 70/89 - NERF! But it's a Fatal now LULZ! Ragna 6B: 75/89 - Buff overall, plus whee, groundbounce! Rachel 4B: 70/92 - No change Litchi 6A[e]: 80/89 - No change Bang 5C: 70/92 - No change Mu 6B: 70/94 - No change Makoto 6B: 80/89 - No change So basically, rather than leave well enough alone, they decided "I wonder what happens when you give a character a fatal counter overhead?" and then just sortof decided that that was fine, because they halfassed the whole thing. :P I have no other explanation for the Extend Tsubaki changes.
redsilversnake Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Ragna 6B: 75/89 - Buff overall, plus whee, groundbounce! It's more of a groundbound, really. The axe kick ender for his DP is the one that has groundbounce. because they halfassed the whole thing. :P I have no other explanation for the Extend Tsubaki changes. That's probably less the explanation for Tsubaki, and more the game as a whole.
Airk Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 It's more of a groundbound, really. The axe kick ender for his DP is the one that has groundbounce. Is a bound higher or lower than a bounce? That's probably less the explanation for Tsubaki, and more the game as a whole. Maybe, but Tsubaki got lots of changes, so more chances for those changes to suck.
redsilversnake Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Is a bound higher or lower than a bounce? It should be obvious that I basically just took that term from wallbound, which is what many moves in this game do in the corner (i.e., Assault Through, Gashoukyaku, our own 22D). Thus, the zenith of their "bounce" will be closer to the ground than moves with actual groundbounce. Maybe, but Tsubaki got lots of changes, so more chances for those changes to suck. The number of changes is related, but it's really more that not a lot of thought seems to have gone into them.
Airk Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 It should be obvious that I basically just took that term from wallbound, which is what many moves in this game do in the corner (i.e., Assault Through, Gashoukyaku, our own 22D). Thus, the zenith of their "bounce" will be closer to the ground than moves with actual groundbounce. Boy. That's what I get for trying to make a joke. Excuse me, I have to go get my wet blanket. The number of changes is related, but it's really more that not a lot of thought seems to have gone into them. Same amount of thought divided across way more changes.
redsilversnake Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Boy. That's what I get for trying to make a joke. Excuse me, I have to go get my wet blanket. What is this "joke" you speak of? Same amount of thought divided across way more changes. Another possibility. Of the continuum shift.
Airk Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 Today's random unreasonable request of Arc Sys: How about you put a $%%^&^ing HITBOX on Tsubaki's SWORD when she stabs upwards with it during her DPs? Maybe it's not the primary 'thrust' of the attack, but it's still a STABBING SWORD.
pktazn Posted May 31, 2012 Author Posted May 31, 2012 Actually thinking about it, that might help with her dead zone problem if they really want to keep her DP a projectile which is a silly idea in the first place... but they seem adamant about keeping it that way so lol.
Tsubaki 5B Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 why is it a projectile anyway? i mean of all things why the dp lol you might as well make 214x a projectile
Airk Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 why is it a projectile anyway? i mean of all things why the dp lol you might as well make 214x a projectile uh, well, it looks like a projectile? >.>
C0R Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 why is it a projectile anyway? i mean of all things why the dp lol you might as well make 214x a projectile So it will lose in situations where a normal-property move would win. Such as moving Tsubaki out of the projectile's origin part or to give it setup-specific weaknesses. It's an alternative way of balancing the move to a lower strength other than straight changing the frame data or hitbox.
Tsubaki 5B Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 So it will lose in situations where a normal-property move would win. Such as moving Tsubaki out of the projectile's origin part or to give it setup-specific weaknesses. It's an alternative way of balancing the move to a lower strength other than straight changing the frame data or hitbox.i understand that but out of all moves that one lol i'm just saying it's not really necessary i mean giving certain moves weaknesses is all well and good but balancing them is also key just making her dp a projectile from any attack in her command list and you choose that one o.0 just from every other character in the game a character type like tsubaki with that just doesn't make sense? but anyway this isn't helpful my bad everyone xD
TheGreatReptar Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 So, I noticed Konan likes to do j.214C>RC>5C on airborn people to do a VS-styled guard break, so I figured out a way to set it up in the corner. blah blah combo>2C©>j.C>j.A>throw (gets teched)>j.214C>RC>5C.
Airk Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 So, I noticed Konan likes to do j.214C>RC>5C on airborn people to do a VS-styled guard break, so I figured out a way to set it up in the corner. blah blah combo>2C©>j.C>j.A>throw (gets teched)>j.214C>RC>5C. What is a "VS-styled guard break"?
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