[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[Elochai]

Well, I'll mostly be focused on combos until week 2 or so. I guess that we could always take combos from videos and build onto/optimize them. I think there's a lot of unexplored routes with Relius anyway, so we should end up finding interesting things.

Btw, how do you guys feel about a setup thread or something of the like? I'm sure we would be able to compile a bunch of tricky stuff.

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[NecroTheReaper]

Relius does have alot of Oki, more than a lot of characters save our other Clover xD

[TD]

im kind of on the other end, l feel like he's near his peak as it stands. not that he doesn't have anything new, just that he may not have a huge amout left to discover. not that that is necessarily bad either.

same for the setup thread, not sure what he has on oki thats so tricky besides + frames and OD. however that is up to you guys. if there is a lot of tricks and gimmicks then by all means, one can definitely be made.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well a lot of his oki could just be doing thr same thing then suddenly... not doing it xD one thing I liked doing was after 3C, hit 2D and if they neutral or emergency teched, do a meaty grab before 2D hits. Course you could use 2B to tag rolls, so reading your opponent is really what it comes down to. Luckily, 214C oki is always there. Its hard to escape and gives you a lot of time to decide.

[Diveman]

Well imo is not necessarily a bad thing that he has the same oki everytime, as long as it remains dominant and locks wakeup options I don't see it's a bad thing, of course I know you didn't say that.

I think, for now, more like trying to think too hard on new oki options; best course is to get used to his already existing ones find more mixups from that same oki and from there move on to new stuff.

[TD]

l agree his oki is great and practical, but thats about it. from my experience, nearly everything else minus val tus is a gimmick or just common relius strats, and outside of OD and some changes to ignis l dont see the idea changing much. tus into whatever you want x n.

l do see extremely gimmicky fullscreen unblockables though. geara nose and act are no longer required to activate behind relius so l see nose + lugia action happening once or twice.

[NecroTheReaper]

Indeed. Doesn't lanto cause kd now? If not, then a lanto hit can still lead to fullscreen kd with lugia which I feel is one of the best things for him. Getting in isn't really a guess anymore.

[Elochai]

Fair enough, TD. Always seemed like Relius had a lot of options on KD though. Perhaps you're right, and there's not much left for us to find. I'd be down for exploring gimmicks though. Need to contribute something besides combos .

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Edited October 24, 2013 by Elochai

[LordSpectreX]

I spend most of my time trying to find out gimmicky Relius stuff, speaking to other Relius players, it's surprising to me how much weird stuff we find that one of us didn't know. Both the old and any new Relius tricks deserve a home. Not to mention that gimmicks are pretty helpful for Relius since his pressure is reliant on conditioning anyway.

And hey, it doesn't hurt.

[NecroTheReaper]

Like when I found out that rising j.A is good on Haks cuz, excluding his now useless 6D, all his counters wiff xD also sets up for a nice j.B crossup, but like I said, only really usable on Haks, plus not as necessary since his counters can be blocked.

[TD]

that sounds more like something that would go in a matchup thread.

for the setups, if any of you start finding a bunch of new undiscovered tech, that would be pretty good. naturally, finding new stuff is encouraged. don't let my ramblings stop you, by all means, explore away!

hard to say whether this would need a full thread or a section in another thread just yet. let's start something fun: if you guys can come up with over 7 different setups, be it old (must work) or new, a thread should probably be made. anything less and it gets a section. how does that sound?

now, for some missing threads (critique, matchups, etc) l am wondering if l should just make them or wait for hard bread. what's the opinion on that?

[NecroTheReaper]

Anyone know if the cancel time of j.B was increased? I remember seeing those j.B>Delayed j.C>6B>j.B>dj.B>j.C>236C combos and I couldnt do it in Extend, though maybe I was screwin it up :O

Edit: maybe I wasn't remembering the setup right, cuz 3C>j.B>j.C>6B combod. And matchup topics I'd say if they're not put up within the launch week by hard_bread we should help him out a bit

Edited October 26, 2013 by NecroTheReaper

[Boodendorf]

How are Relius' bad matchups looking like now? I don't have the game (getting it monday dammit fedex :u) so I can't really test by myself.

Is litchi still a pain in the ass? What about mu?

And when will we have ou MU threads for CP version?

[NecroTheReaper]

The two you mentioned havnt changed much. I'd say litchi probably got more dangerous, but Mu... honestly I never had a really hard time against Mu, but maybe I havnt gone against a really good one. There's the all around damage nerf, but over all, I think Relius will do better in most matches.

[FatalCounter]

Same here, getting it Monday, Europe is still behind. lol. Except Top tiers, Relius is pretty solid.

Well, Litchi is a pain for most of the cast. If you want to be good vs Litchi, you have to play with her in training mode in order to understand how she works and play vs good Litchi players. Her staff is THE Problem.

Mu zoning game is way better in this version but her corner damage have been drastically reduced. It is now difficult to get 4K meterless there while her midscreen damage can be scary. She is good but not a particular threat vs Relius.

[Elochai]

236C gives you a guaranteed HKD, right?

[TD]

yeah

[NecroTheReaper]

Unless its got SMP on it. Btw, anyone mind sharing the secret to falling j.B after 236A>214B? Stuck on challenge 25 but thats my only issue

[HARD_BREAD]

Unless its got SMP on it. Btw, anyone mind sharing the secret to falling j.B after 236A>214B? Stuck on challenge 25 but thats my only issue

You mean after 236C>214B? Try not to be too high in the air, try counting a second in your head after Relius recovers, tap B.

[NecroTheReaper]

Would the proration in this combo ruin that path? Cuz I kept doing this but could not get j.B to hit. Challenge... whatever the one is with a 4k guard crush. CT>5C>236C>214A>66CT>4D>2C>6C>leis>5B>5C>6B>j.C>236C>214A into falling j.B couldn't get it to work

[WakeUpDP]

Would the proration in this combo ruin that path? Cuz I kept doing this but could not get j.B to hit. Challenge... whatever the one is with a 4k guard crush. CT>5C>236C>214A>66CT>4D>2C>6C>leis>5B>5C>6B>j.C>236C>214A into falling j.B couldn't get it to work

Isn't there a SMP on CT? Anyways replacing 5C>6B with 5C(1) would make it pretty low in the air for it to link but I have a feeling that the combo is too long.

Try CT>236C>214A>66 5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>j.214B>j.B>2C>6C>41236B>4D>3C>OD>632146D , should be enough to clear the challenge.

[FatalCounter]

Would the proration in this combo ruin that path? Cuz I kept doing this but could not get j.B to hit. Challenge... whatever the one is with a 4k guard crush. CT>5C>236C>214A>66CT>4D>2C>6C>leis>5B>5C>6B>j.C>236C>214A into falling j.B couldn't get it to work

First of all, CT is not the best starter (80) and you are missing something, in general the combo is after 236C>214A knockdown, you do 66 (or not depending on how far you you are)> 5C (jump cancel its first hit)> jC> j236C>j214B and then falling jB. In general it is done pretty early so that you can continue your combo after falling jB> 2C>6C with 41236B...

If you can't, there is an interesting one, without using Ignis meter, mostly done by Kyuu and pretty godlike. .... 236C>214A>5C(1)>jB (done directly after the jc)>jC (a bit delayed)>j236C>2C>6C>22A>4C>3C>jc or super or 214C (for wake up pressure) or 236D (for unblockable setup) or 214D (for late unblockable setup, not that good, to be honest).

Edit: Oh well, we both replied to your concern.

Edited October 27, 2013 by FatalCounter

[NecroTheReaper]

I meant using CT to break guard, then used CT as combo filler. Anyway, I finally did it. Took a loom at combo 30 and that looks retarded. And my falling j.B issue was indeed fixed lol. So what kinda combo extensions can you do by goin into CT instead if leis after 6C?

[NecroTheReaper]

Sorry for the double post, but maybe we should start getting to work on the matchup threads. Mostly made me feel more obligated to bring this up cuz of other places discussing the Rel matchup and we have no input from our side of the match

[Boodendorf]

Sorry for the double post, but maybe we should start getting to work on the matchup threads. Mostly made me feel more obligated to bring this up cuz of other places discussing the Rel matchup and we have no input from our side of the match

That'd be really good. I got my game today and played tons of game, but I reallly don't know how to approach most matchups anymore with all those changes. Feels like I have to learn them all once again and I could use some help lol.