[Xrd] News & (Theoretical) Gameplay Discussion

[Destin]

They said something about it just being with projectiles.

[Orrax]

@orrax: I image that YRC are only possible on certain moves, to minimize the chaos you're trying to detail. =P

I hope you're right.

They said something about it just being with projectiles.

I think someone said that near the beginning, but I don't know for sure how accurate it is. I double-checked the translations and it looked like projectiles were an example and not necessarily exclusive to the mechanic.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Orrax

[Hecatom]

There's no "FRC" so far, the yellow one is still labeled as RC and requires 50% tension just like the red one.

What it worries me is that they will try to conpensate the loss of the tool by giving more combo oportunities from every counter/hit, etc changing the flow of GG :/

You're at 75% meter. Your opponent has been beating you down pretty badly and has you in the corner. You're both out of burst. You see your opponent about to commit to an attack. Do you DAA or hope to weather the pressure? How about with the new RC system?

Removing decision points can actually make the game harder.

Agree, taking away options from the player is in no way a good thing.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Hecatom

[Silmerion]

Agree, taking away options from the player is in no way a good thing.

Er, I'm not sure we actually agree. I was arguing that making the game harder is a good thing because it makes the decisions matter more.

In the example I gave, you probably DAA under AC's system, because you can still do a big combo after getting out of the pressure. But under the new system, you might choose to take your chances and keep blocking so that you can conserve meter to even out the life totals later on. It's a shift in how you have to think about the situation.

[Kyle]

in High level Gear, blocking in not a risk.

Also, I hate to call it Yellow, if that's not the translation. Anyone know the moon-runes?

Edited August 2, 2013 by Kyle

[Final Ultima]

I think it's worth noting that the screenshots depicting Roman Cancels show Sol's Tension Gauge with what appears to be a sliver of tension (presumably the tension gained from the 5HS and Gun Flame). That sliver is a dark blue colour, and the HUD explanation still shows that 25% tension is green, so the Tension Gauge still changes colour in the same increments as before. I wouldn't count out FRCs just yet.

[Tari]

in High level Gear, blocking in not a risk.

Also, I hate to call it Yellow, if that's not the translation. Anyone know the moon-runes?

Afaik, there's no name for it. It's just a roman cancel.

[SolxBaiken]

Also, I hate to call it Yellow, if that's not what's it's translated as. Anyone know the moonrunes?

As far as I can see, the mention of the yellow hue is the only distinction given to it, both are simply labeled "Roman Cancel".

[Blade]

Overture calls it "Modern Cancel".

I'm surprised no one is talking about being able to Dash Cancel off Dusts now.

Impossible Dusts were highly technical back in the day, and now being able to do that with just a Dash?

[Kyle]

Thanks you three!

Edited August 2, 2013 by Kyle

[Hecatom]

Being able to RC anything at any time just sounds like a recipe for disaster. It's way too loose, and I think it'll honestly increase exec requirements in the long term, rather than decrease them.

And it's not a simplification of FRCs at all. FRCs cancelled your move at the frame you hit the button.

This obviously isn't -exactly- how the timing goes, since that's impossible, but it'll make it easier to show my point.

You were cancelling it x frames into the move to get a specific effect. New RCs would still require you to hit it at exactly frame X to get the effect you want. There's no difference, except you're paying more meter.

The increased meter cost and the ensuing balance headaches make this look like a downgrade from FRCs, not an upgrade.

That is because IS a downgrade, basically you can YRC at any moment going by your explanation but to get the desired result you still need to do it in specific points, now that you can do it any time you can blow the meter but not get the reward wanted, making it harder for everyone that has not perfected the timing yet.

Going with your explanation i can see combos that require on one point, and combos that require like 1 frame later, which in the long run makes it harder for the players (womething that i think that is no the intent)

Er, I'm not sure we actually agree. I was arguing that making the game harder is a good thing because it makes the decisions matter more.

In the example I gave, you probably DAA under AC's system, because you can still do a big combo after getting out of the pressure. But under the new system, you might choose to take your chances and keep blocking so that you can conserve meter to even out the life totals later on. It's a shift in how you have to think about the situation.

Lol, but the whole shit of doing the YRC is to simplify everything for the mithical casual market that invariably would ignore the game no matter how simply becomes

Also, making the game harder because they are taking options away from the player is no good no matter how you look it, because you are making less effective their strategies and their characters.

Dunno about you, but i feel that we should be prepared for a game with a terrible balance like #R (specially because it seems that they are taking #R as foundation), in fact, from now on i am wating for the worst, so if by chance the game ends being good, is a win, and if is terrible i wouldn't be surprised at all

Edited August 2, 2013 by Hecatom

[Agni]

>Everyone freaks out when the game is announced that FRCs might be gone and turn GG into a crappy game

>They're confirmed not to be in (at least for now)

>(nearly) Everyone either supports it or is indifferent to it

Make your minds up people.

[Pichy]

Actually, with the way guard bar is shaping up I'm expecting this game to be very Vanilla XX in terms of both insanely wonky mechanics and gigantic damage output. Hopefully having a loketest this early means they can iron the hell out of those kinks before they're a problem.

[shinr]

Hypothetically, if everybody complains at the loktest about the lack of FRC, will Arc listen and bring them back?

[Rhiya]

You're at 75% meter. Your opponent has been beating you down pretty badly and has you in the corner. You're both out of burst. You see your opponent about to commit to an attack. Do you DAA or hope to weather the pressure? How about with the new RC system?

Removing decision points can actually make the game harder.

You seem to be talking about it making it harder to win the match. I'm talking about making it harder to make the right meter management decisions, which is definitely related, but not quite the same. There's just less complexity in the new system, which means less decisions and less things to weigh when making those decisions. When there are less decisions and less options, it becomes easier to make right decisions all the time --and harder to play your character how you most want to play them. It reduces the amount of legitimate choice in the game, which I can only consider bad.

And really, in AC, there are multiple "right" decisions, which is a hallmark of a good game. That's shot in Xrd -- or rather, there's a lot less variety in good choices.

And I'm not really sure why one decision in your situation is ultimately harder than the other. On the surface, you have some comfort after your DAA in the current system, since you've still got a 25% option. But really, after that, you're faced with another decision you won't have in the new system: is it better to use this 25%, or hold out for 50%? That decision is gone completely in Xrd; you just hold for your 50% if you choose to DAA. Having to repeatedly make decisions of that nature is what makes the current system harder, in a different way, than the one we're seeing from Xrd.

Ignoring FD, to make the examples less complex.

On a related note, you still have more comeback power if you don't spend your meter on a DAA in both systems -- and, arguably, AC's system would reward you -better- for holding your meter since you'd get a maximum of three options (three FRCs/FBs) instead of just one (one RC/super). You're just asking whether or not the 25% option remaining after your DAA makes it easier to commit to. It does, but I don't think one option against none is that much worse of a decision than three options to one. The risk in doing a DAA is higher in the new system, and you certainly are rewarded less for your choice to DAA at 75% in it; however, you're also rewarded less for choosing not to DAA.

The ultimate effect in this situation just seems like an overall weakening of comeback power in a momentum-heavy game, which sounds questionable to me.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Dusk Thanatos

[Agni]

Let's just be glad this is the first loketest. Stuff can still change. We'll have to see how the new system works before we go all theoryfighter on it.

[Blade]

Someone needs to make a game called Super Theoryfighter II Turbo Championship Edition because that's essentially what this is.

[Sytha]

That game is called the North America Fighting Game Community.

Anyway looks cool. I'm betting one of the test characters will be Dizzy or Sin just from the placement of Sol/Ky on the website. Pretty weak guess but has to be a reason Ky is in the middle instead of Sol.

[shinr]

Anybody knows how Japan reacted to the apparently-no-FRC news, and to the system news in general?

[Hecatom]

You seem to be talking about it making it harder to win the match. I'm talking about making it harder to make the right meter management decisions, which is definitely related, but not quite the same. There's just less complexity in the new system, which means less decisions and less things to weigh when making those decisions. When there are less decisions and less options, it becomes easier to make right decisions all the time --and harder to play your character how you most want to play them. It reduces the amount of legitimate choice in the game, which I can only consider bad.

And really, in AC, there are multiple "right" decisions, which is a hallmark of a good game. That's shot in Xrd -- or rather, there's a lot less variety in good choices.

And I'm not really sure why one decision in your situation is ultimately harder than the other. On the surface, you have some comfort after your DAA in the current system, since you've still got a 25% option. But really, after that, you're faced with another decision you won't have in the new system: is it better to use this 25%, or hold out for 50%? That decision is gone completely in Xrd; you just hold for your 50% if you choose to DAA. Having to repeatedly make decisions of that nature is what makes the current system harder, in a different way, than the one we're seeing from Xrd.

Ignoring FD, to make the examples less complex.

On a related note, you still have more comeback power if you don't spend your meter on a DAA in both systems -- and, arguably, AC's system would reward you -better- for holding your meter since you'd get a maximum of three options (three FRCs/FBs) instead of just one (one RC/super). You're just asking whether or not the 25% option remaining after your DAA makes it easier to commit to. It does, but I don't think one option against none is that much worse of a decision than three options to one. The risk in doing a DAA is higher in the new system, and you certainly are rewarded less for your choice to DAA at 75% in it; however, you're also rewarded less for choosing not to DAA.

The ultimate effect in this situation just seems like an overall weakening of comeback power in a momentum-heavy game, which sounds questionable to me.

QFT

[Star-Demon]

What do you guys think about the RC mechanic generating a lot of unblockable tech? Did I miss all the discussion already? lol.

On the assumption that the movement and move properties are similar - Baiken will have some maneuvers she could pull that result in unblockable setups, especially on corner knockdown.

I can't imagine all the shit that characters with more solid setups and mixup game will have. JEEEESUS.

This game is gonna be the hardest game ever or the most bullshit game ever! lol!

[Fenrir Werwolf]

I just think that is hilarious how you guys just flamed for 200 pages against FRC, and now that there are another RC interesting mechanic you're gonna flame on that lol

the new RC mechanics looks nice. It adds combo potential but at greater cost (50% on projectile), and simplifies the FRC manuality for the new players..

Even if, i still think that the "slowing time" process could be active only in certain frames, who knows. It was not written in there, in the end

But, as usual, without having nothing in hand, we can't judge. Just be patient and trust Ishiwatari, the man-God of Humanity

About the new characters... (or Chacaters? Arcsys mystypes is too ridicoulos to be real at this point) Sin will surely be one of those, for too many reasons.

Inside of me, I just want to have Izuna, screw Anji

I doubt that the doc will be out GG2 thou, it is too focused on strategy. But never say never...

[Hecatom]

What do you guys think about the RC mechanic generating a lot of unblockable tech? Did I miss all the discussion already? lol.

On the assumption that the movement and move properties are similar - Baiken will have some maneuvers she could pull that result in unblockable setups, especially on corner knockdown.

I can't imagine all the shit that characters with more solid setups and mixup game will have. JEEEESUS.

This game is gonna be the hardest game ever or the most bullshit game ever! lol!

That is why am saying that all of us should be expecting a really bonkers game.

Just be patient and trust Ishiwatari, the man-God of Humanity

My problem with that is that he was not involved on the best GG so far which is AC, and he is aiming to use #R as a template, which is not really that good imo

They have effectively took away options from the player that alone will have a huge impact on the game, and imo fr the worst, also, GG has never been a heavy combo oriented game like many modern games, and while i really don't have anything against them (i love BB and P4A), the flow that made GG what it is can be potentially out, just the fatc that the RC slows the time already seems as something that would become annoying and flow disrupting very quickly.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Hecatom

[Delrian]

I highly doubt any projectiles will be hitting low in this version if they're keeping RCs the way they are.

Gut reactions to the clash system and RCs aren't that great here, but I'll wait until I see stuff in action.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

, the flow that made GG what it is can be potentially out, just the fatc that the RC slows the time already seems as something that would become annoying and flow disrupting very quickly.

In the end, that is the reason why we have a such early locktest

Edited August 2, 2013 by Fenrir Werwolf