[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

[SoWL]

Kokonoe:

Backdash - duration decreased to 22 frames (rather than 24). Invul frames now last from 1 to 7 (rather than 1 to 12). Airborne from 1 to 14 frame (rather than 1-16). Traveling distance decreased.

Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 2 to 4.

Character Combo Rate - decreased to 70% (rather than 80%).

Hitstun hurtbox - now larger in all directions.

5C - can no longer jump-canceled on block (still possible on hit). Can no longer gatling into 6A and 6B.

2C - can no longer gatling into 6A and 6B.

5B, 2B - can be gatlinged into up to 2 times in a single chain. Can no longer gatling into 6B.

2B - the hurtbox is increased (up to the wrench).

3C - can now be special-canceled. The second hit's attack level is now 2.

j.B - the hitbox is now smaller. The hurtbox is now larger.

6B - the second hit can now gatling into 5C and 3C. The second hit's non-charged version's attack level is now 3 (rather than 5). Now forces crouching on ground hit.

j.C - can now be blocked while crouching. Attack level decreased to 3 (rather than 4).

j.2C - damage decreased to 900 (rather than 1000). P1 decreased to 70% (rather than 90%). No longer knocks down on ground hit. Now has the landing recovery of 9 frames. SMP removed.

Graviton Gauge - now decreases by 2 and recovers by 6 each frame (rather than by 1 and 3, respectively; the gauge's total amount is 1500).

Activate - can now only hit opponents in hitstun.

A Armament No02 [broken Bunker Assault Ver2.21] - the recovery on hit is increased. The follow-up time in the corner decreased to 5 frames (rather than 8).

Armament No02 [broken Bunker Assault Ver2.21] (Explosion) - P1 decreased to 75% (rather than 100%). P2 increased to 92% (rather than 70%).

Armament No06 [Planar Haze Ver1.24] - if Kokonoe stands closer to Graviton's back, she teleports in front of it. Can no longer cross-up if the opponent is standing in the corner.

Armament No04α [Flame Cage Ver1.43] - now hits 4 times (rather than 6).

B Armament No05 [banishing Rays Ver3.10] - attack doesn't come out unless the opponent comes closer. Can now be used again (the icon re-lits) 30 frames later (like the A version).

Armament No03 [Absolute Zero Ver4.32] - the freezing gun's chip damage is decreased to 50 (rather than 100). The machine gun's damage is decreased to 60 (rather than 60) (total damage decreased from 2500 to 1671). Maximum amount of hits decreased from 48 to 40.

Armament No04β [Pyro: Flaming Belborg Ver2.73] - the projectile's minimum damage decreased to 10% (rather than 20%).

OD Armament No04β [Pyro: Flaming Belborg Ver2.73] - the damage is 210x18 (regular version's is 270x12). P2 is 97% (regular version's is 95%). Hit stop is 2 frames (regular version's is 3). Minimal damage proration is 15%.

Armament No07 [Jamming Dark Ver1.65] - on activation, deployed Graviton disappears, while the Graviton gauge freezes. When used in the corner, the attack comes out beyond the screen. The heat gauge cooldown is now 240 frames.

OD Armament No07 [Jamming Dark Ver1.65] - the damage is 1800. When used in the corner, the attack comes out on the screen.

Armament No08 [Hiten Greed Rhyme Ver1.00] - new move added. Triggers automatically after Absolute Zero hits if the player has 50% of heat gauge. The OD version deals more damage.

I can finally rest now.

[50-50罠]

*

just asking, you dont think setups like wja tick into command throw wont be good still? I dont see why ja just has to be unless. Yea we know we are losing corner carry/damage off that and the 90f meter nerf makes using wja rather bleek i get that, however, why cant you just find other uses for it. I mean its still rather quick and a good poking tool virtually.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

[Aloci]

KOKONOOohokay.

Some of those changes for her make me very happy.

[Errol]

Lol at kokonoe backdash having 1-12f invuln

Neither Rachel nor Valkenhayn get huge damage off of their IOH j.A's though. At any rate, I'd say that Valk's is better pre-patch while Rachel's will be better post-patch, similar to what TD said.

The problem isn't lack of huge reward, the problem is negative reward. Not only that but there are better options available.

Rachel's IOH is good but she doesn't really get corner carry off it, and even in the corner the wind recovery is just about neutral. midscreen it basically resets to neutral and setup to try to recover wind and do it again.

you do have to guess against it, but depending on wind it can be over pretty quick, especially if you pay attention to her wind.

in corner, oki is good, but rachel's pressure and combos are weak to CAs and bursts, and can leave her in a pretty bad situation, having blown wind but now being in neutral.

She'll be S after the patch but it should be noted how much of a factor N-O is in that. Don't know/don't think that we'll see anyone else really showcasing that S capability.

[TD]

wow. arcsys punched, kicked, bashed, and otherwise beat the shit out of kokonoe.

It did, apparently, stop her from being top tier since CT...

that's not the reason, pretty much at all. rachel was absolutely broken in ct, there was much, much more to worry about than that - although, she could get 4k+ from her IOH at the time. that was just the tip of the iceberg.

terumi got buffed and nerfed and otherwise looks only slightly better.

[Assassinine]

Im lamenting what appears to be the potential loss of nearly all of his raw OD setups.

I dont want to deal with poverty cancel OD duration

[TD]

thats a pretty sizable nerf but he should still be able to stack high damage consistently once he gets meter. its seems more of a OD meter gain/finisher nerf, or that the player could get one or the other.

[FatalCounter]

This has to be a joke, right?

- Bigger hurtbox in the air

- 5C has less recovery but less damage, no stagger, knocks airborne opponents away a shorter distance, and less untech

- 6A lost gatling to 6B and isn't special cancelable

- 6C lost damage, lost head invul, and doesn't knock them into the air as much now

- Yeah, stances can be followed up faster, but air stance cancel now takes way too long just like the ground one. The stance "cancel" is about the same as just waiting for the pose to run out

- Sairingeki leaves him in air stance, which means he has to spend the time coming down to attack

- Ryuugajin untech cut by 1/4!

- Hiryuusengeki can only take 1500 damage from a projectile now instead of just eating them all along the way, because we can't have something beat projectiles while getting in

- His Flash Sword has less combo time, who cares if it wall splats, especially on CH only?

There are going to be so many better characters than Kagura, and you're asking for him to be banned?

He was joking. You gonna recognize that he got more buffs than nerfs. We will lose some damage but we have now a really solid character with strong neutral + safer character.

Lets do point by point.

5C will be always connects with 6DC midscreen and in the corner we won't have to time correctly 6DC for combos, making it easier. you are crying about -100 damage and -4F recovery? Come on

2C recovery was so bad, now -10 recovery frame + a safe 2DB (welcome to wonderland). Ragna could just block that move and chase you with 5B, now he gonna have fun. BTW with these numbers, it is safe on block.

3C is a bit nerfed because it will not be posssible to do 3C > 2DC > 46A> 5B > 3C > 2DC but the fireball mixup will still work. Not a big deal.

6A, I really hate they took it away but it may make our game kind of tricky. faster, safer and pretty sure linkable on CH. Interesting for me.

6C with less recovery, better blockstun, by knocking away lower, it can make it easier to link with 6DA. It was kinda tricky midscreen. No H inv is a nerf but it will still hit people above him like Hakumen 2C. Go and tell a Hakumen player that he can't AA with 2C bc it is not Head inv. lol

Lets not talk about stances cancel buffs.

5DA is buffed,

5DB is nerfed,

5DC is buffed and now a sort of AA.

2DA is nerfed for midscreen damage but buffed with a air stance cancel, even faster.

2DB is seriously buffed. safe on block = we gonna ride that sword.

2DC untouched!!!

6DA nerfed but most of combos will still connect.

6DB untouched.

6DC is kinda the same, do you really use this move to go through super? Even Shippu super collides with it and you take more then 1200. I guess I gotta respect Jin and Rachel super (I think it still gonna beat this one)

28C is nerfed? come on we couldn't even get any real damage from it. Wall slam on CH will be very interesting, it may connect with some other starter.

Now we have an OD super combo ender for better dmg.

I appreciate these changes and I think Kagura is gonna be better.

Edited March 14, 2014 by FatalCounter

[Airk]

wow. arcsys punched, kicked, bashed, and otherwise beat the shit out of kokonoe.

We call this "making a finished character"; I mean, WTF was up with her gatlings before? I'm still wondering if there are other characters in the game who have "you can only gatling to this TWICE in a string"?

that's not the reason, pretty much at all. rachel was absolutely broken in ct, there was much, much more to worry about than that - although, she could get 4k+ from her IOH at the time. that was just the tip of the iceberg.

This is like, the backwards interpretation of what I was saying. I wasn't saying "CT Rachel was broken because of her IOH" I was saying "If Rachel had gotten high damage off her IOH in games SINCE CT, she might have been top tier in them, but she didn't, so she wasn't, unlike Valk, who did, and was."

terumi got buffed and nerfed and otherwise looks only slightly better.

Honestly he didn't sound like he needed to be a LOT better...

[AvariceX]

The way I'm interpreting Terumi's changes is basically:

-Reduced pushback on 5C could be a significant improvement, hopefully no more basic gatling combos dropping for no good reason.

-All the buffs to 5D are very welcome just so he can have a somewhat safe option with pretty good range in the neutral game.

-Reduced pull on anti-air 2D seems to just be there to prevent some of the silly anti-air trades he can get into full combos, which to me is fine because 2D isn't supposed to be his anti-air anyway

-Negative penalty resistance I don't think matters at all. He's a rushdown character; If you can manage to get negative penalty as Terumi then you probably have bigger problems than negative penalty.

-I have a feeling the reduced followup time on 3C combined with the reduced hitbox on 6D are going to make a lot of his current combos drop. For instance 2B 5C 3C 22C Messenga dash 5B 5C 3C 6D - this is already a really tight followup window for the 6D at the end and I'm worried for it.

-Midair Soutenjin being air unblockable is just a quality-of-life change, but a very welcome one.

-Air Renshouga seems silly. I'm having a hard time imagining when it's going to be all that useful. Right now it's just a decent combo finisher to close out a round and a good way to punish people throwing out projectiles without looking at your meter...but now you can do it in the air...okay I guess. It's strange to me that the input is j.214214D and not j.236236D though.

-Scratch that, it's not aerial Renshouga, it's anti-air...which is fine I guess. Again I don't see it as a huge change.

-Jagaku and Garengeki being DD cancelable on hit is a nice change; right now it's just a big flashing sign saying "This is when you can burst safely!"

-Orochi low version: "I have 50 heat? Take this 50/50. But don't worry my meterless high/low still sucks".

-Midscreen Garengeki wall-bounce means potentially higher damage midscreen combos if you choose to pass up the heat gain on 5D/6D/Jagaku (unless all of those will still connect after the wall-bounce, which I doubt given the other changes to his followup times).

So yeah, he got some buffs and some nerfs but will just end up slightly better. I am fine with this. (Of course I could be completely off-base).

Edited March 14, 2014 by AvariceX

[Assassinine]

Who anti-airs with 2D? Thats a thing?

3C 6D may indeed be in jeopardy, but we wont know until its live. 5D 6D with the 5D buffs should keep 6d links working in the corner for most combos

You are looking at the new Renshouga wrong. Its not an air move, its an anti-air move. It throws the chain diagonally upwards. Its still not going to be very useful as it can be barrier blocked. With the dramatic nerf to existing Renshouga's startup, im not expecting either of these supers to be of any use.

Orochi mixup wont be very strong, as we will only be able to follow up the high version, and only in the corner. Ultimately RC mixup will be superior in almost every scenario.

Midscreen 22C may give us some gross midscreen damage, but i think thats too good to be true. Im expecting it to be 236D stuff for meter, 22C stuff for screen carry and better oki. Im expecting us to be incapable of reaching them after the wallbounce, and it will become an Azrael style scenario where they have to emergency tech to avoid being scooped into big damage. I could be totally wrong though.

[Loli Bacon]

We call this "making a finished character"; I mean, WTF was up with her gatlings before? I'm still wondering if there are other characters in the game who have "you can only gatling to this TWICE in a string"?

Rachel.

[TD]

not sure how to feel on the whole 22c thing. knocking down with 3c isnt too hard for teru, so heat gain and corner carry is going to be a lot more consistent between 22c, 236d, 5d. but it seems slightly too easy. whatever too early right now

and new jarin, i -guess- its to make people scared of it bc right now its not very scary outside of OD setups. in neutral l guess it could be more of a yolo thing.

[Dazardz]

Stuff

Your right in some places, but I like a character with below average neutral and a high damage output (lol tager), but I hate 360's so screw Tager. If Kagura loses damage for better neutral, eh, I don't know who I'll main. Certainly not Az or Haku, I hate link combos.

[Errol]

Rachel is instant B tier if she doesn't have her IOH, but the reason she isn't S would be other stuff, not damage off the IOH.

None of Rachel's moves move her forward so multiple gatlings is kind of different anyway. Makoto has 5b6a5b and should be the only character that has that..

[Airk]

Rachel is instant B tier if she doesn't have her IOH, but the reason she isn't S would be other stuff, not damage off the IOH.

Really? You don't think getting 3k and oki off her instant overhead would make her S tier?

None of Rachel's moves move her forward so multiple gatlings is kind of different anyway. Makoto has 5b6a5b and should be the only character that has that..

"Should be"?

[AvariceX]

Who anti-airs with 2D? Thats a thing?

It's not a thing, but if you make a mis-read and 2D when they jump at you right now and they still get hit by it somehow, you get a pretty silly followup for something that should have been you eating a combo instead. It's technically a nerf, but only in the most bizarre scenarios that shouldn't have ever mattered in the first place.

You are looking at the new Renshouga wrong. Its not an air move, its an anti-air move. It throws the chain diagonally upwards. Its still not going to be very useful as it can be barrier blocked. With the dramatic nerf to existing Renshouga's startup, im not expecting either of these supers to be of any use.

Noted, thanks, and agreed.

Orochi mixup wont be very strong, as we will only be able to follow up the high version, and only in the corner. Ultimately RC mixup will be superior in almost every scenario.

I didn't realize low Orochi couldn't be followed up. Agreed in that case, RC is still way better.

Honestly I see most of his changes as quality of life changes or just not very relevant, but the midscreen 22C is the biggest question mark right now.

[HyroXIII]

*random comment from a (I'm a legit member now? lol) Legit member*

well, glad it sounds like Kagura is more or less the same.

[Assassinine]

and new jarin, i -guess- its to make people scared of it bc right now its not very scary outside of OD setups. in neutral l guess it could be more of a yolo thing.

The OD unblockable setups already scream "use your DP/burst/OD now!". It will be even more gimmicky after the patch with that huge startup nerf on Renshouga.

[TD]

at the -very least- 22c will connect into 236(6)d, aiding in damage and corner carry. edit: @assassinine the setup is ghetto within itself, but l was just making a point. neutral jarin, even post patch will be lackluster.

[Dreize]

just asking' date=' you dont think setups like wja tick into command throw wont be good still? I dont see why ja just has to be unless. Yea we know we are losing corner carry/damage off that and the 90f meter nerf makes using wja rather bleek i get that, however, why cant you just find other uses for it. I mean its still rather quick and a good poking tool virtually.[/quote']

Well, we have a plethora of command throw set-ups, but yes something along the lines of w[5C > 6D > j.A > Land > 236D] would still be applicable. w[j.A] won't be totally useless, it will still be combo filler/have it's isolated uses.

There's no point in being hung up on w[j.A] with the current information that we have though. We'll have other better air wolf normals, after all.

Midscreen he'll go negative wolf meter off of his IOH but in the corner he'll always go positive.

I suppose that pushing the opponent towards the corner with 5CC whilst creating space is something better suited for Rachel though.

[Errol]

Really? You don't think getting 3k and oki off her instant overhead would make her S tier?

"Should be"?

Who said anything about getting oki off her instant over head, I know it wasn't you? The reason isn't the damage, like I said, but the oki situation, the wind situation, the corner carry situation. if she got 3k off her instant over head she would probably be burning all her wind to get it, and that wouldn't be good. hell part of the reason she does so little off of the IOH is to maintain a solid advantage and just get another hit. If we were to make up some fictional character, maybe it could be just like now except 5cc does 1500/2000 damage to bump the damage up to 3k, and teleports rachel and them to the corner

kokonoe has 5b6a5b at the moment, and shouldn't

[Airk]

Whoops, right. Carry on.

That said, what criteria are we using should/shouldn't here on 5B6A5B?

[Errol]

Feelings. Makoto deserves it. she should have good options during up close blockstrings... more than she has.

[Errol]

really it's just about kokonoe having had too much, anyone else, I don't care.