Daedron Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Wait, which one is correct? SKD's translation or SoWL's translation on this Izayoi change: SoWL: Crush Trigger - can't be barrier-blocked on max charge. SKD: CT - unblockable removed at full charge. ?????
Justice7541 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) P sure you can't charge DP fast enough to beat out Ragna DP in a clash-mash battle. Fullscreen dash-in DP is easy, no one said anything about that. I was talking about microdash DP, i.e. you dash and DP to make sure it at least connects so it can be RC'd. Not being able to do that means they actually have to stick their hurtbix into your DP for it to hit, which means it's a lot easier to bait out Kagura's DP just by spacing him intelligently. Also let's not forget that Kagura's DP gives him no oki unless it's a CH, unlike ID which gives a free meaty and Origins which pushes the opponent to fullscreen. Edited March 12, 2014 by Justice7541
SoWL Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Wait, which one is correct? SKD's translation or SoWL's translation on this Izayoi change: SoWL: Crush Trigger - can't be barrier-blocked on max charge. SKD: CT - unblockable removed at full charge. ????? Uh, I haven't checked Izayoi's current data, so the latter seems to be more accurate. Fixed.
Daedron Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Right, to be honest I didn't even know her CT was unblockable at full charge, goes to show how amazingly useless it is.
Dreize Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Looks like they want 90% of the backdashes to be 22 frames.
D.R.F. Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I never questioned the charge motion weakness but rather the problem that he has no airversion of his dp and his dp makes him airborn. So i was not even sure he could clash with another dp (like Ragna's ID) Flash sword wins in clash against ID unless they mash it. Its active frames are really good Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Flash sword wins in clash against ID unless they mash it. Its active frames are really good Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk Kagura's dp wins against any other dp (even Mu's dp) unless they mash it
Dazardz Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I lol at Kagura's DP. Maybe it will change from a Kagura players POV, but I easily see Relius as one of his toughest matchups. I havnt ever found a need to go for mixup, oki, or pressure because you can just challenge him for full screen neutral control and land CH's. His 6D~C I've only ever seen eat up 22x and even if he's in range to hit you with it, 236Aing his drive mixup gives you a free CH. Honestly I feel like they needed to take his DP combos... and convert them into a good dash speed/air speed/SOMETHING that can help him in neutral. By the way, Kagura's 6D~A can go through Relius's 214A and 214C. Timing is harder on 214C, but that doesn't mean timing is difficult at all. It's super easy to do. Regardless, the matchup still has it's stupid stuff.
SoWL Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Are there any other translations of Mu's DP change? Frankly speaking, this is the first time I've seen すり抜け in the patch notes, so I'm not sure what it means in gameplay terms. My best guess right now is something like "If Mu has the invuln frames from quick recovery, the DP's guard point comes out later" or something like that.
hakimiru Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Are there any other translations of Mu's DP change? Frankly speaking, this is the first time I've seen すり抜け in the patch notes, so I'm not sure what it means in gameplay terms. My best guess right now is something like "If Mu has the invuln frames from quick recovery, the DP's guard point comes out later" or something like that. The way I read it was that the startup invuln was changed so that it's invuln because there's no hurtbox/contact box - ie things pass right through (hence the "すり抜け"). So it should be true invuln from 1F~7F, and then full body guard point 8F~ for the ground version, or something like that, I think. Edited March 13, 2014 by hakimiru elaborated a bit
TheBossGiga Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 after looking at most of the character changes(disregarding universal backdash nerf) It seems like the tiers will barely change At All. Just random changes that don't really fix any problems except for the biggest ones like koko and iza....
Zouf Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Are there any other translations of Mu's DP change? Frankly speaking, this is the first time I've seen すり抜け in the patch notes, so I'm not sure what it means in gameplay terms. My best guess right now is something like "If Mu has the invuln frames from quick recovery, the DP's guard point comes out later" or something like that. Like hakimiru said, DP is now invul instead of auto guard, which should allow option selects / safe jumps against it (it was the only DP in the game you couldn't safe jump, thanks to this autoguard bullshit) @ThebossGiga : Hazama got nerfed pretty hard I believe. I don't think he will be top tier again
mAc Chaos Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 after looking at most of the character changes(disregarding universal backdash nerf) It seems like the tiers will barely change At All. Just random changes that don't really fix any problems except for the biggest ones like koko and iza.... Well, the game was pretty solid pre-Koko.
Angry Guy of DE Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Pretty much Jin, Hazama, and Hakumen will go down the tier list to some degree. Jin lost some frame advantage on his j.C and j.2C on ground opponents which gave him almost airtight pressure against characters without a viable anti-air or invincible reversal. Hazama seems to lose damage from most confirms as the amount of reps from j.C will be reduced. Damage from Serpent's Infernal Ra- Jayoko Hotenjin will be lower as the combo time is lessened, Same with the command throw. Hakumen loses damage due to decreased Magatama gain in the air as well as the loss of unscaled OD combo from canceling air-throw on the first hit, good riddance. Outside of that characters that were solid will still be solid and those that were further down the list will stay where they are for the most part. Makoto will still stay a solid bottom tier, 10% acorn taunt or no.
Airk Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Hazama seems to lose damage from most confirms as the amount of reps from j.C will be reduced. Damage from Serpent's Infernal Ra- Jayoko Hotenjin will be lower as the combo time is lessened, Same with the command throw. Actually, it sounded kinda like they are keeping him from doing j.C "reps" at all (basically, just once) because they changed the pushback on it. Hakumen loses damage due to decreased Magatama gain in the air as well as the loss of unscaled OD combo from canceling air-throw on the first hit, good riddance. Outside of that characters that were solid will still be solid and those that were further down the list will stay where they are for the most part. Makoto will still stay a solid bottom tier, 10% acorn taunt or no. Yeah, it's kinda stupid, it's like: Kokonoe Tier: Huge nerf S Tier: Fiddly changes A+ Tier: NERFS! B tier: Fiddling changes C tier: Fiddling changes and nerfs Izayoi Tier: Buffs, yay. It doesn't really get more random than that.
Eshi Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Well, the game was pretty solid pre-Koko.Agreed. I was hoping it wouldn't get changed very much, especially since we haven't even had the game for that long (it's not even out in the US yet!). The top tiers are great but they don't need to get heavily nerfed. Except Kokonoe. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that Makoto is still awful and boring.
Justice7541 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Valk got hit pretty hard too, no more hurr instant overhead j.A spam for him. Well, I guess he can still do it, he just won't get anything off it. I'm not really an expert on any of these characters but the nerfs look fairly reasonable except maybe Tao who probably didn't get nerfed enough. I doubt Hazama will be picking up full combos off random AA pokes anymore and Valk rushdown looks to be taking a big hit with the wolf gauge and starter nerfs. Dunno about Litchi, I never understood that character at all.
FatalCounter Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I am just waiting for Kagura and Kokonoe changes!!!! Why is it taking so long? Lmao.
Errol Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Jin and Hakumen barely got touched. they will still be better than most characters in the game.
Justice7541 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Jin and Hakumen barely got touched. they will still be better than most characters in the game. Jin's a shoto, he's always going to be good so long as he has a DP and D ICECAR DA GOD. Hakumen I dunno, that air gauge really got really fucked. They should just give him super fast star regen on the ground but make it so each jump actually costs a star, that'd be funny.
Airk Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Jin's a shoto, he's always going to be good so long as he has a DP and D ICECAR DA GOD. Previous versions of BB say you are wrong.
Angel-tastic Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I was hoping it wouldn't get changed very much, especially since we haven't even had the game for that long (it's not even out in the US yet!). Also, I was hoping that they would be able to update the console version before the US release. For the people who didn't import BBCP and who were playing it for the first time, it seems like it would be kind of jarring for the game to come out pre-patch, and then change drastically a week or two later. I like the patch itself though because my character got like a dozen buffs pretty much.
Errol Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 N-O posted some matchup numbers for Jin. For characters he has enough experience with to write about. Number of matches taken in a best of 10 set, individual matches best of 5 Rachel 5～6 Noel 5～6 Taokaka 5 Relius 7～8 Hakumen 5 Hazama 3～4 Valk 5 Litchi 4～5 Carl 5～6 Makoto 8～9 Bullet 8～9 even among these chars though, some he has more experience and some less experience with, and depends on how far he's progressed in each matchup
FatalCounter Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Jin's a shoto, he's always going to be good so long as he has a DP and D ICECAR DA GOD This tho, Jin DPs suck and the only one that was good get nerfed. Fubuki was the best. All his DPs are just too risky with low reward. His mixup game will get even weaker since his 6A is nerfed and freely punishable on block. The best thing about Jin is his very strong neutral game and a move for any situation. That is it. He will be A- tier or B+ tier. Hakumen nerfs are only on comebacks and metagama gain but his combo route are still the same and his footsies game have not be touched. Gauge nerf will hurt a bit but Hazama, Taokaka and Valk got serious damage nerfs. He will remain strong. His name is Hakumen after all.
Angry Guy of DE Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Hakumen nerfs are only on comebacks and metagama gain but his combo route are still the same and his footsies game have not be touched. He will remain strong. His name is Hakumen after all. His comeback aka robbing potential from air-throw was because it was made as a 2-hit move with a p1 of like 100 or something? His damage should always be high especially with stars to burn its just now he'll get less meter hopping in the air with j.C and won't have as much meter to catch people with his command dash that dodges everything but lows and throws. I don't fully understand Tao's changes but she won't be doing 4K off of most hits now? As far as Valk's changes, the wolf gauge seemed pointless since he could un-wolf and continue the combo long enough for the regen to kick in. His pressure might still be strong but it won't feel as though any type of hit give him the combo into corner carry.
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