redsilversnake Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 As far as Valk's changes, the wolf gauge seemed pointless since he could un-wolf and continue the combo long enough for the regen to kick in. The change may very well be pointless for his combos, but it does mean players will probably have to actually manage the gauge during neutral, which would make it easier for their opponents to play against them.
Justice7541 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 He won't be able to un-wolf and regen anymore, that's kind of the point. At least not as much since if I am understanding his changes correctly he regens at a significantly reduced rate for about 3 seconds after un-wolfing. Which means without super ender he's not going to be able to just go right back into wolf mixups at the end of the combo.
Dreize Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The change is: Wolf Gauge - after changing from wolf form to human form manually, the gauge recovery is slowed down for a while (the recovery rate equals 1 for 90 frames after switching back to human form, and equals 3 afterwards). So basically when he transforms from wolf mode to human mode the gauge recovery rate = 1/3rd of what it normally is for 1.5 seconds (90 frames). Combos with several wolf transformations will be effected more than others, this of course will also also effect neutral (such as common movement options like w[j.66D]) wherein Valkenhayn is constantly swapping from wolf mode --> human mode and vice versa. Gauging how hard the wolf gauge nerf is going to hit Valkenhayn is pretty damn hard without playing/seeing the game, so I really have little to no idea right now. Additionally, w[5C > 236A] has recently been confirmed. This may be a problem, but we'll see. Properly confirming may also be an issue.
50-50罠 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) As dreize mentioned it's simply not something you can call w/o actually playing the game, but it's not going to be the "Magic fix" to beating Valk. If you couldn't block it b4 the nerf, the meter nerf sure as hell aint helping after. Valk still gonna be hated. 90f not that bad. Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk Edited March 14, 2014 by 50-50罠
TD Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 starter nerf will cushion the hits a bit. it wouldn't be bb without insane mixup chars, but at least said chars wont be getting huge reward (by meterless instant overhead's standards) for doing something so simple and dominating. vs starter possibly means reduced corner carry for him too which is huge for anyone in this game. l know rach can still 5cc after her IOH within a second or two, but can valk do this quick enough?
Dreize Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Our new midscreen w[j.A] BnB is probably going to look something like w[j.A > 5B > 5C]. No corner carry whatsoever, uses a command dash/time in wolf mode, does little to no damage, etc. Unless the opponent has an extremely small sliver of health w[j.A] in general is looking rather useless as it currently stands. Of course this also means that his ability to convert random hitconfirms into legitimate combos has gone way, wayy, down. We may actually be seeing a bit more of w[j.B] now which is something nice & new (plus it has a slightly more interesting animation than w[j.A] in my opinion]. Wolf brake system is still intact so his mix-up should still be top-notch.
Syklone Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Hazama is trolling his way to B tier. Sad times incoming.
Airk Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Hazama is trolling his way to B tier. Sad times incoming. We can only hope. That clown has escaped the nerfbat for waaaay too long.
Justice7541 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Our new midscreen w[j.A] BnB is probably going to look something like w[j.A > 5B > 5C]. No corner carry whatsoever, uses a command dash/time in wolf mode, does little to no damage, etc. Unless the opponent has an extremely small sliver of health w[j.A] in general is looking rather useless as it currently stands. Of course this also means that his ability to convert random hitconfirms into legitimate combos has gone way, wayy, down. We may actually be seeing a bit more of w[j.B] now which is something nice & new (plus it has a slightly more interesting animation than w[j.A] in my opinion]. Wolf brake system is still intact so his mix-up should still be top-notch. No more IOH j.A is a big deal, especially if doing it costs him meter that he won't get back immediately anymore. He'll still be a good mixup character, just not "lol i got in now try to block 4 50/50s in a row" tier.
Skye Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Don't think it's that big, if it hit, whatever the damage or corner carry, you still maintain momentum, not to mention the possibility of resets. The change to the wolf meter is the best change for me, I can block wolf mix up to a certain extent, but I hate blocking it, then getting hit and having to stay from square 1 when he gets good meter back after the combo.
Setsuna Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 BBCP 1.1 Kagura, Terumi and Kokonoe changes http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/tyousei7.html
mAc Chaos Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 No more IOH j.A is a big deal, especially if doing it costs him meter that he won't get back immediately anymore. He'll still be a good mixup character, just not "lol i got in now try to block 4 50/50s in a row" tier. Not getting huge damage off IOH j.A never stopped Rachel's from being great.
Aloci Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Not getting huge damage off IOH j.A never stopped Rachel's from being great. Yeah but Rachel at least gets to put stuff all over the screen.
SoWL Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Boy, that's a whole lot of changes. I'll try translating them ASAP, but don't be surprised if I get ninja'd.
Loli Bacon Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Translate Koko stuff: - Backstep duration decreased from 24f -> 22f. Airborne duration decreased from 1-16 -> 1-14. Invuln decreased from 1~12 -> 1-7. - Negative penalty resistance increased from 2 -> 4 - Character Combo Rate decrease from 80% -> 70% - (not entirely sure on translation) While taking damage, Kokonoe's hitbox is bigger (is this accurate?) Source: ダメージ状態中のやられ判定 全体的に大きく。 - 5C cannot be jump cancelled on guard (may still be jump cancelled on hit). 5C can no longer be cancelled into 6A and 6B - 2C can no longer be cancelled into 6A and 6B. - 5B, 2B revolver action can only occur once. 5B/2B can no longer cancel into 6B. - 2B hurt box increased (up to the wrench). - 3C is now special cancellable. Second hit is now level 2 (is this correct?) Source: 3C 必殺技でキャンセル可能。2段目攻撃レベル2。 - j.B hitbox reduced. Easier to beat. - 6B can now be cancelled into 5C and 3C on the second hit. Charged 6B second hit level changed from 5 -> 3. On ground hit, it forces crouching. - j.C can be blocked crouching. Attack level down from 4 -> 3. - j.2C damage from 1000 -> 900. P1 90% -> 70%. Now staggers on ground hit instead of knocking down. Landing recovery is now 9f. SMP removed. (I think.) - (This one is odd, but I'll try my hand at it) Graviton gauge changed from depleting by 1 and restoring by 3 -> depleting by 2 and restoring by 6 each frame it's active. (gauge caps at 1500) - Activate no longer has a hit box unless they are already getting hit. - 236A: after hitting is more stiff (increased...? probably hits farther). When hit in the corner, untechable time decreased from 8f -> 5f - 236B P1 100% -> 75%. P2 70% -> 92% - 22C: When graviton is near Kokonoe, she'll teleport into the graviton. When far, she'll teleport in front of the graviton. Can no longer cross up in the corner. - 214X: Number of hits reduced from 6 -> 4. - 22B: When the opponent does not approach it, the attack won't go off. (is this accurate?). After the attack, icon will reappear for reuse after 30f. (same for A version) - 236C: Ice gun damage down from 100 -> 50. Gatling gun damage 70 -> 50 (overall damage 2500 -> 1671). Maximum hits 48 -> 40. - Super Ball: Flying portion (I think fireball launch) minimum damage reduced from 20% -> 10% - Overdrive Super Ball: Damage 210 x 18 (Normal version 270 x 12). P2 97% (normal is 95%). Hit stop 2F (normal is 3F). Minimum damage is 15% - Blackhole: During attack, Graviton does not recover gauge. Goes off screen in the corner. Works like normal mid-screen. After attack, heat gauge is on cooldown for 240F. - OD Blackhole: 1800 Damage. In the corner, works like Vanilla CP version. - New Super: Hiten Greed Crime: Will automatically combo when 236C connects if you have 50% heat. With Overdrive, damage goes up. More when I'm out of class. Edited March 14, 2014 by Loli Bacon
SoWL Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Kagura: Hitstun motion - an upper hitstun motion (after being hit with jumping attacks and the like) now has a taller hurtbox. Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 3 to 5. Counter Assault - the hitbox is increased downwards. 5C - recovery decreased to 23 frames (rather than 26). Damage decreased to 1000 (rather than 1100). Guard recovery decreased to 22 frames (rather than 25). No longer staggers on ground hit (hitstun decreased from 31 to 28 frames). Blowback decreased on aerial hit, untech time decreased to 36 frames (rather than 40). 2C - recovery decreased to 23 frames (rather than 33). Damage decreased to 900 (rather than 1000). Guard recovery decreased to 20 frames (rather than 23). Hitstun decreased to 28 frames (rather than 31). 3C - the blowback is lower, but farther. 6A - recovery decreased to 19 frames (rather than 21). Now -3 on block (rather than -5). Can no longer gatling into 6B. Can no longer be special-canceled. 6C - start-up decreased to 22 frames (rather than 24). Damage decreased to 1200 (rather than 1300). Guard recovery increased to 24 frames (rather than 20). Head invincibility removed. The blowback is lower. j.B - can now gatling into j.A. Ground D stances - can now be followed up sooner (after 14 frames rather than 17). Midair D stances - can now be followed up sooner (after 5 frames rather than 8). Midair D stance cancel - now available later (after 34 frames rather than 19). Forward throw, backward throw - now wall-bounces in midscreen and wall-splats in the corner. Follow-up backdash - duration decreased to 25 frames (rather than 30). Ryuuhashou - stagger time on counter-hit increased to 43 frames (rather than 40). Ryuugekisou - P2 changed from 60%+100% (total 60%) to 80%+65% (total 52%). Toryuurenzan - the second hit's hitbox is increased. Now moves Kagura forward during the attack. OD Toryuurenzan - the second hit's untech time is increased to 50 frames (rather than 42). Sairingeki - when switching to another D follow-up, Kagura is considered airborne. Ryuusenken - the dash's speed is increased. the second hit's attack level is increased from 3 to 5 (now -5 on block rather than -9). Ryuugajin - untech time decreased to 45 frames (rather than 60). Hiryuusengeki - can now only withstand 1500 damage from projectiles during the charge (rather than any amount). Ryuujinshou - combo rate time decreased to Moment (rather than Fast). Wall-splats on counter-hit. The blowback is lower. OD Ryuuha: Gokuenjin - now only kills the opponent on the follow-up hit. Ryuuou: Zangaoushou - OD version added; the damage is 500, 550x19, total 2881 (regular version's damage is 500, 4000, total 2247). Both versions now turn Kagura around on activation.
TD Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Don't think it's that big, if it hit, whatever the damage or corner carry, you still maintain momentum, not to mention the possibility of resets. The change to the wolf meter is the best change for me, I can block wolf mix up to a certain extent, but I hate blocking it, then getting hit and having to stay from square 1 when he gets good meter back after the combo. this is one of the biggest problems l had. getting hit on the 4th try and having to try again on top of the foe knowing how i'll block... one may say that's a 'gg' situation. rach hits with an IOH and she gets one wind back, which gets used on pumpkin, or has to 'risk' frog oki. though its powerful, valks is more powerful than that currently.
Justice7541 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Those Kagura buffs, I hope they ban this filth from tourneys.
SoWL Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Terumi: Backdash - duration decreased to 22 frames (rather than 25). Invul frames go from 1 to 5 frame (rather than from 1 to 6). Negative Penalty Resistance - increased from 2 to 4. 5C - attack level decreased from 4 to 3. First hit's knockback is decreased. Second hit's hitstun increased to 20 frames (rather than 19), guard recovery increased to 19 frames (rather than 18), now -2 on block (rather than -3). 5D - now active for 4 frames (rather than 3). Recovery decreased to 18 frames (rather than 23). The closer edge of the hitbox is now taller. Attack level increased from 3 to 4. Now -3 on block (rather than -9). Hit stop decreased to 9 frames (rather than 11). P2 increased to 80% (rather than 74%). Other level-related changes apply. 2D - P1 decreased to 90% (rather than 100%). P2 increased to 92% (rather than 82%). Untech time increased to 36 frames (rather than 30). Aerial hit now has higher blowback, but weaker pull. 6B - start-up decreased to 24 frames (rather than 26). Now active for 3 frames (rather than 2). Now +3 on block (rather than +4). 6C - can now be counter-hit up until the move's last frames. Recovery increased to 31 frame (rather than 29). Now -14 on block (rather than -12). Knockback decreased. Time to follow up on ground counter-hit decreased to 10 frames (rather than 24). 3C - Follow-up time on hit decreased by 1 frame. 6D - the first hit's bottom hitbox is decreased. Jagaku - damage changed from 300x2, 900 to 360x2, 800. P2 changed from 100, 79x2 to 89x3. If the move hits in the corner, is knocked back. Can be DD-canceled on first hit, third hit and block. OD version's second and third hit each drain 2.5% of opponent's heat gauge. Gasenshou - can be DD-canceled at any time after the last hit. OD version drains 10% of opponent's heat gauge. Garengeki - lv.1 version can be DD-canceled at any time from the first hit to the final frames. Last hit can be emergency teched. Lv.1 and lv.2 versions now cause slide down on midscreen and wall-bounce in the corner. The mash hits' damage is now 100 and doesn't prorate. Lv.3's last hit wall-bounces everywhere, the mash hits' damage is 100 (proration applies). Ground Jakyou Messenga - now active for 2 more frames. P2 decreased to 70% (rather than 80%). Now blows back diagonally upwards, making it easier to follow up. Time to follow up decreased by 4 frames. Midair Jakyou Messenga - P2 decreased to 70% (rather than 80%). The blowback is adjusted, making it easier to follow up. OD Gouga Soutenjin - on counter-hit, the last hit ground-bounces slightly higher. Time to follow up increased by 4 frames. Midair Gouga Soutenjin - can no longer be blocked in midair. A Orochi Burensen - new move added. The input is 63214A. Can only be blocked low. B Orochi Burensen - invincibility adjusted from 9 ~ super-flash 3 to super-flash ~ super-flash 3. The last hit causes slide down in midscreen and wall-bounce in the corner. OD Ouja Zanrouga - now deals multiple hits on successful catch. Jarin Renshouga (air) - new move added. The input is 214214D. Can't be blocked in midair (other than with barrier). OD version is unblockable. Jarin Renshouga (ground) - the start-up is increased to 9 frames + superflash 22 (rather than 9 + superflash 13).
AvariceX Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 So what I'm seeing for Terumi is significant buffs to neutral game and slight nerfs to combo game with the tradeoff that you can get a little more midscreen if you're willing to spend a DD? I can definitely live with this. Thanks for the translations SoWL.
Airk Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Not getting huge damage off IOH j.A never stopped Rachel's from being great. It did, apparently, stop her from being top tier since CT...
TekkamanArk Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Those Kagura buffs, I hope they ban this filth from tourneys. This has to be a joke, right? - Bigger hurtbox in the air - 5C has less recovery but less damage, no stagger, knocks airborne opponents away a shorter distance, and less untech - 6A lost gatling to 6B and isn't special cancelable - 6C lost damage, lost head invul, and doesn't knock them into the air as much now - Yeah, stances can be followed up faster, but air stance cancel now takes way too long just like the ground one. The stance "cancel" is about the same as just waiting for the pose to run out - Sairingeki leaves him in air stance, which means he has to spend the time coming down to attack - Ryuugajin untech cut by 1/4! - Hiryuusengeki can only take 1500 damage from a projectile now instead of just eating them all along the way, because we can't have something beat projectiles while getting in - His Flash Sword has less combo time, who cares if it wall splats, especially on CH only? There are going to be so many better characters than Kagura, and you're asking for him to be banned?
Dreize Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 No more IOH j.A is a big deal, especially if doing it costs him meter that he won't get back immediately anymore. Uhm, yes? A 13 frame overhead that leads into a surplus of wolf meter via the corner is a big deal. Don't think it's that big, if it hit, whatever the damage or corner carry, you still maintain momentum, not to mention the possibility of resets. Except the problem with this is that he's spending a command dash & time in wolf mode to do this...in a game wherein he's about to receive a wolf meter nerf. If he's in a position to hit you with w[j.A] he's probably already in control of momentum, so why would he mix you up with a wolf normal that grants an almost negative reward as opposed to ones that don't? There are a few isolated scenarios, but not much more than that. Not getting huge damage off IOH j.A never stopped Rachel's from being great. Neither Rachel nor Valkenhayn get huge damage off of their IOH j.A's though. At any rate, I'd say that Valk's is better pre-patch while Rachel's will be better post-patch, similar to what TD said. The problem isn't lack of huge reward, the problem is negative reward. Not only that but there are better options available.
Recommended Posts