Verimeloni Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 You really can't balance a character like her without making her absolutely shit. Get rid of her 3C = strong A tier Kokonoe.
Dark Ranger88 Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Get rid of her 3C = strong A tier Kokonoe. But she wouldn't be Kokonoe without a quick low that out-pokes 95% of the cast
SoWL Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 That's also -1 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That, along with the fact that it whiffs up close, makes it perfectly fair
Airk Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 The thing is Tager has to tag you first to screw with your movement, Kokonoe merely needs to press D and a direction to pull you which ever way (Which is like more like giving Rachel unlimited wind and while her fireballs are like flying Georges that are already activated their whole animation.), and even then all of his movement screwing moves are so slow to come out AND recover they end up getting him screwed. I don't consider it the same thing, there's that huge a difference. Koko has the advantage of projectiles, speed, and other BS to make her Graviton safe, whereas Tager is restricted to using it for combos and Oki only (Both of which Koko still does better.) If she could only effectively use Graviton on you after she landed 236A/B which could be changed so that instead of a sticky bomb it attaches a graviton receiver and the opponent has to hit Koko or wait a certain amount of time to get it off, then I'd consider it balanced. (Graviton would still work on her fireballs and teleports tho) Good job proving my point, namely, that there's nothing about "A character that messes with your movement" that automagically makes them unbalanceable. Also, it's not REALLY equivalent to Rachel with Infinite Wind because Kokonoe actually has to DO something to deploy Graviton, whereas Wind is a "Free Action" for Rachel. An interesting way to make Kokonoe less annoying in Neutral would be to slow down the Graviton deployment. See? This stuff is EASY. We have tons of ideas in like 10 minutes. There's nothing unbalanceable about this character. The fact that she is stupid has everything to do with them making her stupid and nothing to do with her "design".
Hughalicous Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 And the silliest universal change in BBCP1.1: Astrals now all do more damage. A japanese friend of mine told me that the numbers are now representative of canon power levels. Transcribed from his researchNu 40,000Hakumen 38,000Kokonoe 37,100Mu 37,000Relius 36,000Terumi 34,500Rachel 34,200Azrael 32,000Litchi 32,000Kagura 31,000Ragna 30,000Hazama 30,000 Jin 27,315Izayoi 27,000Valkenhayn 25,700Carl 21,850Taokaka 21,570Amane 21,000Bang 19,800Noel 18,800Tager 16,000Makoto 15,200Arakune 14,000Bullet 11,000Platinum 9,999Tsubaki 9,000 Poor Tsubaki is secretary tier. Edit for his source interview (moonrunes) http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/837/837284/ I can't read them myself so I'm trusting him to not make a fool of me on the internet
Rishtopher Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 That's pretty interesting that Litchi is canonically as strong as Azrael. Definitely didn't see any indication of that in the game's story. Also surprised (and secretly pleased :P) to see Relius so high on that list. I'll take that with a grain of salt though. I kind of want to stick with what the game shows me, even if it's way more vague. Nu being the highest on the list seems really suspect to me.
ざわ…ざわ Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 As someone pointed out in another thread, it doesn't have anything to do with power levels. Litchi's damage total is another Mahjong reference; 32,000 is the number of points you get for winning with a Yakuman hand.
Kriegdrache Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Litchi confirmed for Akagi-tier Also, I feel bad for Tsubaki, dat little girl damage.
Rishtopher Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 As someone pointed out in another thread, it doesn't have anything to do with power levels. Litchi's damage total is another Mahjong reference; 32,000 is the number of points you get for winning with a Yakuman hand. That's interesting. Can you link me to said thread? I'm curious to know if other characters have similar references.
shtkn Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 jin's astral damage is absolute zero in celcius 27315 damage -> -273.15 Celcius
Kikirin Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So basically... Tsubaki's power level is not over 9000 in a world where everyone else's is. =(
Airk Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 jin's astral damage is absolute zero in celcius 27315 damage -> -273.15 Celcius Hah! Awesome!
Luminos564 Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 As someone pointed out in another thread, it doesn't have anything to do with power levels. Litchi's damage total is another Mahjong reference; 32,000 is the number of points you get for winning with a Yakuman hand. Yeah that makes much more sense. "Litchi is canonically as strong as Azrael"? Yeah, I call BS. The man could just brush past her by accident and she'd snap like a twig. As for Nu-13, my first instinct was that her damage is a reference to Warhammer 40K, but it might also be a reference to the 40,000 Headmen album. Or maybe just "4" being "death" in some cultures.
mAc Chaos Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Also Kokonoe's. We must figure out all the references.
Zeromus_X Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Want to say Mu's is a reference to Kusanagi (sa = 3, na = 7?) but idk. Silly Japanese number wordplay.
Anne Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Also Kokonoe's. We must figure out all the references. We must! But we must do it somewhere else that's not here :P There are gonna be other things to talk about this week.
Verimeloni Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 By doing this reference thing I think they should've used Pi as Kokonoe's AH damage (3.141...). Canonically the strength order should go like Hakumen/Azrael, Rachel/Terumi etc. Those Astral damage buffs, though pointless are a nice change. Now it's actually satisfying to combo to Patriot Apocalypse and not have it add 1 damage to the combo.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 They really missed out on making Ragna's astral 66, 666.
fishnet Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 This Koko, Litchi, Azrael and Hazama nonsense NEEDS to end before EVO. Who wants to see just high tier in the top 8 for the simple fact that lower tiers have way less options? Every character SHOULD have a weakness/downside to their Drive. They should be trying to set the standard at EVO, not repeat what Yun did in SF4 the past event. Litchi - Slow down overhead attacks starting frames(by adding more frames) Staff loses hitbox and falls to the ground if it's NOT on her(like flying around or stuck in the ground) If she is hit(unblocked). She will have to stand over it pick it up to use her staff moves again. Azrael - Less invulnerability on dash. Less movement on dash. Hazama - Drive meter can only be recharged while on ground. Non-Ouroboro Drive moves can't be used without full charge. Koko - Slow down recharge time on Drive. Can only be recharged on the ground. Gaviton disappears if koko is TOUCHED(like the fire point on Mu-12's Steins). Add more recovery to teleport. Slow down 3C Izayoi - Put her body from her shoulders down into quicksand(her moves are too fast).
Dreize Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Izayoi - Put her body from her shoulders down into quicksand(her moves are too fast). I support this change. I've always wanted quicksand in my fighting games.
Angry Guy of DE Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Every character SHOULD have a weakness/downside to their Drive. What? Almost everyone uses that in their combos. The only person that won't care is...Hakumen...okay I know who you play now.
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