TeeJay Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 They didn't want to make another Jin/Ragna character maybe. You know, easy all around everything. The two of them wouldn't be too good if buffed, they would just be too simple. It would be hard to buff Makoto or Tsubaki properly without just making either of them outright easier to play or making it so they have an easier time in general. Like I'd say a lot of Tsubaki's depth and difficulty comes from compensating for her faults because I actually think a good amount of her conventional combos and basic gameplan are some of the easiest of any character in the game (so long as you have proper spacing). Doesn't keep me from complaining about everything, though. I actually think that's why they keep Tsubaki low too. She's easier on the execution for someone like me, though I played a lot of fraudulent Litchi. If she ever got too good...... I've always approached Tsubaki as I have to play smarter to win. It feels like I beat Ornstein and Smough when I beat a good Koko....
StylisH Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 They didn't want to make another Jin/Ragna character maybe. You know, easy all around everything. The two of them wouldn't be too good if buffed, they would just be too simple. It would be hard to buff Makoto or Tsubaki properly without just making either of them outright easier to play or making it so they have an easier time in general. Like I'd say a lot of Tsubaki's depth and difficulty comes from compensating for her glaring faults because I actually think a good amount of her conventional combos and basic gameplan are some of the easiest of any character in the game (so long as you have proper spacing). Doesn't keep me from complaining about everything, though. I see your point, but then I look at Terumi, Kokonoe, Bullet, etc and one starts to wonder...
Zedar90 Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 It's not known, and will probably not be known until sometime after the arcade release. This is what Mori answered to a twitter question during ArcLive. Question: When is the version up for home console? Mori: Fua? Wait, just let me say a thing. If I say something unnecessary about that, they will really be angry at me. When the arcade have calmed down it will come.
zaeris Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 its based on story and the power level is already dictated, thats why tsubaki is part of the lowest tier =p and yes anyone to who studies at military academy are gennerally low tier unless you have a huge gay crush on their own brother ^^
StylisH Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 its based on story and the power level is already dictated, thats why tsubaki is part of the lowest tier =p and yes anyone to who studies at military academy are gennerally low tier unless you have a huge gay crush on their own brother ^^ Relius and Hazama say hello. If story mode was the case, then Tao and a few others are in the wrong tier.
Monarch Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 its based on story and the power level is already dictated, thats why tsubaki is part of the lowest tier =p and yes anyone to who studies at military academy are gennerally low tier unless you have a huge gay crush on their own brother ^^ > Noel > Carl
D.R.F. Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 Relius and Hazama say hello. If story mode was the case, then Tao and a few others are in the wrong tier. Tao is actually pretty strong, she is just a moron. Relius and terumi never studied at the academy. Terumi created the NOL and Relius has been a scientist and researcher since way before that.
StylisH Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 Tao is actually pretty strong, she is just a moron. Relius and terumi never studied at the academy. Terumi created the NOL and Relius has been a scientist and researcher since way before that.
StylisH Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 Oh yeah? Well....well. Shows what I know about story mode. And Carl and Noel slipped my mind.
Angel-tastic Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 It's not known, and will probably not be known until sometime after the arcade release. This is what Mori answered to a twitter question during ArcLive. Question: When is the version up for home console? Mori: Fua? Wait, just let me say a thing. If I say something unnecessary about that, they will really be angry at me. When the arcade have calmed down it will come. OK. Thanks for the info. It'll be interesting to see what happens next with the franchise. Hopefully they might add a few new characters in addition to Celica.
zaeris Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 I'm wondering how many emoticon I need before people understands I wasn't being serious lol.
StylisH Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 I'm wondering how many emoticon I need before people understands I wasn't being serious lol. I knew you weren't, but I'm bored so hey
Airk Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 They didn't want to make another Jin/Ragna character maybe. You know, easy all around everything. The two of them wouldn't be too good if buffed, they would just be too simple. It would be hard to buff Makoto or Tsubaki properly without just making either of them outright easier to play or making it so they have an easier time in general. Like I'd say a lot of Tsubaki's depth and difficulty comes from compensating for her glaring faults because I actually think a good amount of her conventional combos and basic gameplan are some of the easiest of any character in the game (so long as you have proper spacing). Doesn't keep me from complaining about everything, though.I completely disagree; Tsubaki has lots of things that are difficult right now that have nothing to do with her basic 'design'. Double especially when you compare her to certain characters who are already top tier and have magic combos that autocorrect their opponent's position so you don't even have to think... :P
SixWingedAngel Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 Well Makoto is supposed to be like, the weakest character in story mode too so at least it makes sense
Master Of Chaos Posted September 13, 2014 Posted September 13, 2014 Story mode has nothing to do how good or bad characters are, arguing otherwise is silly. Nor does it have anything to do with this thread. Move along.
chzchan Posted September 14, 2014 Posted September 14, 2014 I completely disagree; Tsubaki has lots of things that are difficult right now that have nothing to do with her basic 'design'. Double especially when you compare her to certain characters who are already top tier and have magic combos that autocorrect their opponent's position so you don't even have to think... :P I do agree with the positioning for combos and stuff being sort of messed up for Tsubaki because of the way her normals are structured when compared to other characters, but I still think it is hard to buff her correctly. I should have clarified my statement though. When I said buff I meant buff or slightly change aspects of her that already exist. That "buff" that I used there does not mean a drastic core change or a completely new addition. I really should have said this earlier. Buffing her can be done correctly without making her easier to play. Here some examples of buffs I have seen requested before are things like make 214D a low or make 22D an overhead (ya know because Azrael has a horizontal-looking special that is actually an overhead) or make her current charge cancel pressure plus on block or make it so that 5BB sucks the opponent in like Jin's annoying as shit 5B or make 236D > 214D airtight so you can't get grabbed out of it or make it so that she gets a charge after completing a combo like Bullet without having to sacrifice her momentum. All these do is make her easier to autopilot even though they would be super super helpful. There are a few changes I am pretty fine with that I am mega biased about like simply making her 2B faster and her 6A either faster, longer in range, or give her a slightly longer step forward because both of those moves are complete garbage. I dunno man. Just curious though; what would you list as things that you don't think should be a problem but are for some reason?
Airk Posted September 14, 2014 Posted September 14, 2014 Here some examples of buffs I have seen requested before are things like make 214D a low or make 22D an overhead (ya know because Azrael has a horizontal-looking special that is actually an overhead) or make her current charge cancel pressure plus on block or make it so that 5BB sucks the opponent in like Jin's annoying as shit 5B or make 236D > 214D airtight so you can't get grabbed out of it or make it so that she gets a charge after completing a combo like Bullet without having to sacrifice her momentum. All these do is make her easier to autopilot even though they would be super super helpful.Most of those are awful ideas though. Plus on block charge cancel would make her the most brainless character ever, which is why no one who knows anything about her actually suggests it. I disagree that making 236D>214D airtight would in any way make her "easy" - FFS, that costs two charges, why should the opponent be able to disrespect it for free? Actually though, no one WANTS it to be airtight. Smart players would like it to be a 1 frame gap - we already have a gapless followup option (236D > 22D) and it's basically useless because if the opponent pushes, say, 2A to disrespect 214D and you do 22D instead, they're still in blockstun and it doesn't hit them, so you're left trying to very very slightly delay it. I dunno man. Just curious though; what would you list as things that you don't think should be a problem but are for some reason?All kinds of stuff. Let's face it - 5BB should reach farther than it does. If you're going to make a character with autofollowups, players shouldn't then have to train themselves to NOT use them. Undoing the CP 2C nerf also seems like an obvious one to me. Combo-wise she still has a lot of issues with character specific hitboxes that could probably easily be fixed by making the hitboxes on HER moves less crippled. And then there's just her pressure in general and the fact that you can basically just Barrier -> Disrespect out of it almost anywhere. That should be fixed - not by some sweeping change, but by a bunch of little ones. Something to make her DP-whiff combos and IAD combos less absurdly position sensitive probably wouldn't hurt either. When I see people saying "Oh, oh, Litchi has high execution!" and then watch high level players pretty much never drop Litchi combos unless they're super weird situation (Or worse, doing some incredible weird pickup into a combo where for Tsubaki it's usually "Oh, yeah, you hit with that? Tough, there's nothing you can do except MAYBE a crappy 1.5k air combo off that"), and then I watch high level Tsubaki players just dropping DP whiff stuff because the combos are so damn unreliable, I start to question the accuracy of people's estimations of execution difficulty. :P
StylisH Posted September 14, 2014 Posted September 14, 2014 There's a difference of difficulty of combos and difficulty of neutral/character control (Makoto is a prime example of this)
TD Posted September 14, 2014 Posted September 14, 2014 Litchis combos are more or less intermediate; it's the situational awareness of her combos and all of her options, both inside and outside of her combos, that make her difficult. Mastering her though will usually make her more like "choose the right combos and you should be fine" as opposed to any character specifics (basically all her combos are universal) or possible combo drops. Litchi'a neutral is not easy which could contribute to her high execution opinions. She is very matchup dependent. Tsubaki may not be very good but her gameplan is more simplified than litchis.
Zedar90 Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 The TGS arc Live streams have been given dates. Part 1 is on the 19th and Part 2 on the 20th. Part 1's guest is Nomizu Iori(Celica), and the guests on Part 2 is Yasumoto Hiroki(Azrael) and Mitsuhiro Ichika(Hibiki)
Soviet Bear Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 https://twitter.com/ARCSY_Event/status/511797258832973824 If I got this right, 2.0 is dropping this Fall?
Zedar90 Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 https://twitter.com/ARCSY_Event/status/511797258832973824 If I got this right, 2.0 is dropping this Fall? Yes, in October (the arcade version that is, the console version have no date or time frame)
Soviet Bear Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Thanks! Does anyone remember how long the gap between CS2's arcade release and console release were? Or Extend's? I'm guessing this isn't gonna take as long as CP1, since they already have most of the console content done.
Zedar90 Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Thanks! Does anyone remember how long the gap between CS2's arcade release and console release were? Or Extend's? I'm guessing this isn't gonna take as long as CP1, since they already have most of the console content done. "Extend" was reveled for the arcade in late July, was released on the arcade in beginning of October and got a console release on December the 17th. So early next year for BBCP2.0?
swordsman09 Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Part 1's guest is Nomizu Iori(Celica), and the guests on Part 2 is Yasumoto Hiroki(Azrael) and Mitsuhiro Ichika(Hibiki) Calling it right now, Hibiki will be announced as a playable character.
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