StylisH Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 UNIEL has way less mixup (almost none unless you're in Gordeau in fact) and people still find ways to open people up without the match ending in time over TOO often. You don't need unreactable 50/50s on every character to make a game flow quickly, although it does help. The naked truth
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 My prediction is that with the damage lowered and overall nerfs to characters' mixup and neutral tools, we'll be back to another "do long combos because that's the only way to actually hurt people" game but I hope I'm wrong. That's how it's looking. Except now my character doesn't actually hurt at all. Gonna have fun never breaking 3K anymore due to wolf normal nerfs. I was even considering switching to Tao, but she does even less damage now. I'll hold out for now, but I'm still pretty cautious. On a brighter note, it might put a new emphasis on stagger pressure for the characters that were weaker in that area before. This would make for a much more mind game heavy fighter, although 50/50s are the things I've always loved the most in these games....
Airk Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 That's how it's looking. Except now my character doesn't actually hurt at all. Gonna have fun never breaking 3K anymore due to wolf normal nerfs. I was even considering switching to Tao, but she does even less damage now. I'll hold out for now, but I'm still pretty cautious.I'm not entirely sure a character with unblockable mixup really needs to be able to kill his opponent in three combos....
Myoro Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 That's how it's looking. Except now my character doesn't actually hurt at all. Gonna have fun never breaking 3K anymore due to wolf normal nerfs. I was even considering switching to Tao, but she does even less damage now. I'll hold out for now, but I'm still pretty cautious. Meowkaka can still break 6K with a little bit of effort. She's just not insane anymore. Her speed and mix-up are intact, but 236236D nerf and the j.D, j.236B and Distortion damage nerfs hurt a damage and oki a little. I did something like 6C>CT>236CC>jump>j.2D~B>5[C]>6C>4D~B>6C>236AAA>5D~A>6C>OD cancel>TK236236D for 6K+ and that was just me screwin' around. I'm sure there are combos out there that do tons more from far easier confirms. By the way if you just 236C~B after the 5D~A you get oki and 5k ish damage for less than 25 heat... In any case, she does alot better than Valk in breaking 4K. she can almost do that much off a throw, if not more.
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I'm not entirely sure a character with unblockable mixup really needs to be able to kill his opponent in three combos....Even as he is now, Valk cant even come close to that. Midscreen you will get 2.5K on average with corner carry, and that's assuming you got a beast cannon counter hit, counter hit human 5B/5C or a wolf 5C counter hit AND have the wolf meter to spend. And the unblockable mixup you're referring to nets you 1.5 - 2K and costs about 40% of your gauge unless you go for a safe jump which axes the damage down to 1.4K. The corner is where optimal damage comes in, but that goes for all characters. I know I sound like an ass for bitching about Valk of all characters, but people seem to forget he's pretty mid tier now, not the absurd monster he used to be. I swear if more people used him they would realize the wolf normal nerf and meter nerf stifled his neutral and offense considerably. Relius is a better character than he is right now, think about that. This is partly why I get upset when people avoid me online because I use him. Valk vs Ragna is 5-5 for god sakes. If the most basic character in the game can go 5-5, I don't think that spells "overpowered character". I know I'm preaching to the wrong choir though, I just don't want to come off as a whining scrub.
StylisH Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I'm not entirely sure a character with unblockable mixup really needs to be able to kill his opponent in three combos.... His mixup is not unblockable. It's actually been nerfed since CSE.
Ziggy_Stardust Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Wait, so Azrael CP 2.0 nerf for TLC is that it only does wallstick? I've heard that it only does wallstick in the corner and it still bounces elsewher, but I also head the it will just wallstick. I can see wallstick being useful the corner being useful, but that kinda hurts him midscreen. I mean I guess 3C-22C-stuff is still a thing, but yeah....
NEJI12212 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Even as he is now, Valk cant even come close to that. Midscreen you will get 2.5K on average with corner carry, and that's assuming you got a beast cannon counter hit, counter hit human 5B/5C or a wolf 5C counter hit AND have the wolf meter to spend. And the unblockable mixup you're referring to nets you 1.5 - 2K and costs about 40% of your gauge unless you go for a safe jump which axes the damage down to 1.4K. The corner is where optimal damage comes in, but that goes for all characters. I know I sound like an ass for bitching about Valk of all characters, but people seem to forget he's pretty mid tier now, not the absurd monster he used to be. I swear if more people used him they would realize the wolf normal nerf and meter nerf stifled his neutral and offense considerably. Relius is a better character than he is right now, think about that. This is partly why I get upset when people avoid me online because I use him. Valk vs Ragna is 5-5 for god sakes. If the most basic character in the game can go 5-5, I don't think that spells "overpowered character". I know I'm preaching to the wrong choir though, I just don't want to come off as a whining scrub. don't worry i feel your pain as a valk/nu main since everyone always complains about how strong he is but I'm still planning on keeping up with him despite the huge nerfs he is about to receive (i'll forever miss his command throw setup TT.TT) its worse for Nu because now I have to re re-learn her and just had no motivation to play her for the last month because all of her combos will be different with no form change (still have no idea if I like the change or not)
chzchan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Wait, so Azrael CP 2.0 nerf for TLC is that it only does wallstick? I've heard that it only does wallstick in the corner and it still bounces elsewher, but I also head the it will just wallstick. I can see wallstick being useful the corner being useful, but that kinda hurts him midscreen. I mean I guess 3C-22C-stuff is still a thing, but yeah.... Yeah, you no longer get midscreen TCL oki after a dash, but you get more corner carry.
D.R.F. Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I hear you stellar, but I dont think you should be using ragna as a basis. In honesty ragna doesn't have any shit matchups, and the fact he has a reliable dp (INFERNO DIVIDA!) and strong normals keep the fight at a fair level. But idk Im one of those people who never realized how scary azrael was in comparison to the cast, just how shitty characters like tsubaki and bullet were in comparison. And thats my point of view, in which I wish the weaker characters would have tools to deal with characters like azrael, rachel and litchi
Airk Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 His mixup is not unblockable. It's actually been nerfed since CSE.I dunno; I was watching LK vs SKD from GUTS3 the other day, and even with LK being kinda rusty with Valk, there was no blocking the wolf mixup. The only way wins got had was by winning at neutral.Anyway, 5-5 vs Ragna is about where I'd like to see everyone, and I don't HONESTLY believe they're going to nerf him meaningfully. Remember - you're going off information from ONE nonsense loktest.
chzchan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Haha, SKD's fingers melted after he attempted Izayoi in tournament play with a pad. I doubt that's going to change in 2.0.
ArisatoGod Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Lol.Ragna has some bad/annoying matchups, just not as bad as let's say Kokonoe vs Makoto. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Errol Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Ragna Rachel is close to even. not further than a 4.5
ArisatoGod Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Well nevermind then. Thanks for the info. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
NEJI12212 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 i dont know I still think either arakune vs kokonoe or amane vs kokonoe is alot worse than makoto vs koko
Jourdal Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Why does that sound like extend? I don't remember playing this version of extend. Ragna Rachel is close to even. not further than a 4.5 https://twitter.com/SuperKawaiiDesu/status/514301739793932288
NecroTheReaper Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I enjoyrd extend, but it was the first BB I purchased, so maybe the money-milking bitterness that's soaked into everyone's veins
Myoro Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Even as he is now, Valk cant even come close to that. Midscreen you will get 2.5K on average with corner carry, and that's assuming you got a beast cannon counter hit, counter hit human 5B/5C or a wolf 5C counter hit AND have the wolf meter to spend. And the unblockable mixup you're referring to nets you 1.5 - 2K and costs about 40% of your gauge unless you go for a safe jump which axes the damage down to 1.4K. The corner is where optimal damage comes in, but that goes for all characters. I know I sound like an ass for bitching about Valk of all characters, but people seem to forget he's pretty mid tier now, not the absurd monster he used to be. I swear if more people used him they would realize the wolf normal nerf and meter nerf stifled his neutral and offense considerably. Relius is a better character than he is right now, think about that. This is partly why I get upset when people avoid me online because I use him. Valk vs Ragna is 5-5 for god sakes. If the most basic character in the game can go 5-5, I don't think that spells "overpowered character". I know I'm preaching to the wrong choir though, I just don't want to come off as a whining scrub. I dunno enough about valk to say much here, but you make it sound like Rel is bad. Last I heard Rel was up for high A to S tier, so that doesn't mesh well with what I've come to believe. Same thing with me Necro, although I was feelin' it around the time I bought Kokonoe.
Stellarcircle5 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I dunno enough about valk to say much here, but you make it sound like Rel is bad. Last I heard Rel was up for high A to S tier, so that doesn't mesh well with what I've come to believe. Same thing with me Necro, although I was feelin' it around the time I bought Kokonoe. What I meant was before, Valk was indisputably better, now Relius wins with safer neutral and more consistent damage output. He is far from being bad at all. I realize I should've worded that better now, haha. As far as offensive monsters with strong neutral go, Relius has the edge IMO.
chzchan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Last I heard Rel was up for high A to S tier, so that doesn't mesh well with what I've come to believe. I occasionally hear Relius being given the name "pinnacle of balance" in BBCP.
SoWL Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 UNIEL has way less mixup (almost none unless you're in Gordeau in fact) and people still find ways to open people up without the match ending in time over TOO often. You don't need unreactable 50/50s on every character to make a game flow quickly, although it does help. Unless you're Gordeau? Merkava's flight oki is a thing, and so are Wald and Carmine's throws, Vatista's IOH, Linne and Seth's cross-ups, Byakuya's FF...
TD Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 ragna rachel is close to even. :v and yes, relius would be a great example of balance right now. he has plenty of great tools, all moves in his arsenal can be used in some way, and he has a clearly defined mechanic with great synergy between all of his moves. he's not shitting out damage or mixup or unblockables, his overdrive is fair for the most part,and he doesn't get destroyed or utterly destroy any other character. unrelated, he is also both beginner friendly and a challenge to veterans. (I think he can be a bit more of a challenge, but it's whatever.)
Anne Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 ragna rachel is close to even. :v he's not shitting out damage or mixup or unblockables,ya'll say some wild ass shit lmao
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