Airk Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Ragna D inferno divider is 7 frame startup fatal counter. :P No idea if it LEADS to anything (though I hope so). Seems like it'd be a good Cancel-OD punish. I still feel like we know too little about how this mechanic functions to speculate too wildly though.
FinalDoomGuy Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Ragna D inferno divider is 7 frame startup fatal counter. :P No idea if it LEADS to anything (though I hope so). Seems like it'd be a good Cancel-OD punish. I still feel like we know too little about how this mechanic functions to speculate too wildly though. Ragna D ID as of 1.1 leads into 5C (just one example, I remember also gauntlet hades into j.c j.c belial working IIRC) and can lead into pretty good combos.
chzchan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Just to clarify, Kagura's [4]1236 C Super is 2 frames of startup (1 before flash, and another after the flash). It doesn't have any invul. so a meaty hit can hit him out of it after the flash. Actually you could probably maybe punish staggered jab pressure with Kagura's DD so long as you start charging backward since it starts up so fast. It's OD version even does a bit of extra damage. I wonder if you'd be able to charge during the activation of ODR. Not sure if it is enough time or how the system works with that. amane's drills have long active but also pretty good recovery. GCOD is longer duration which I think means longer invuln too. I'm thinking if you GCOD when the drill is coming out or even before it you'll get a punish. Wait is it getting 1.0 invuln or longer? 1.1 is 7 frames. 1.0 was 9 frames I think.
SoWL Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 If Tager is one of the characters who profit from GCOD more than the rest, what about Bullet? Her 720 is a pretty good option to have out of blockstun, too, even though it doesn't deal as much damage as Tager's. And even then, the OD gives you one Heat-Up level, so all you need is get another one somewhere in advance. Not sure if you keep the levels after the OD 720 (the OD will most probably end before you finish all the follow-ups), but if you do, that's another buff to her defense.
Angry Guy of DE Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 @ chzchan: As far as charges go with the super, it requires a charge of 30F while holding [4]. Now the question is the start-up of the Guard Cancel OD unique or the same as raw OD (1+15) or OD cancel (1+5). It would be implied that it isn't the same as x-factor guard cancel where upon activation you are set back to neutral and can immediately perform a move, so there would be some form of recovery close to OD cancel. Then it would be looked at exactly how much invul. is there after the flash, if it is more than 2 frames from when you can act then so long as a charge was held then it would be a two frame invul reversal. While it is rather safe, most of the time Kagura uses this as a punish to a move that is more than -2 (not considering how far they were pushed back). Staggered A pressure is not what the super is used for as you could be hit during the 236 input of [4]1236 as you are not blocking. Also if the person is able to react with a viable reversible they can mash it out during the super flash if it has frame 1 invul and it will beat or at the least trade with the super.
chzchan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 If Tager is one of the characters who profit from GCOD more than the rest, what about Bullet? Her 720 is a pretty good option to have out of blockstun, too, even though it doesn't deal as much damage as Tager's. And even then, the OD gives you one Heat-Up level, so all you need is get another one somewhere in advance. Not sure if you keep the levels after the OD 720 (the OD will most probably end before you finish all the follow-ups), but if you do, that's another buff to her defense. Just makes it seem like it is another deterrent that needs to be baited by using certain types of pressure, especially with characters like Tager and Bullet. See, Bullet already needs to be treated like Tager when she has 50 heat and 2 heat up levels, but now if she has 1 heat level, OD, and 50 heat she gets Tager treatment as well.
Zouf Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Characters with relatively fast FC starters will benefit hugely from this if they know their opponent's frame data, specifically recovery, really well. You can't CH with GCOD.
Kikirin Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 You can't CH with GCOD. Is this a confirmed thing? It's possible that the attacks used to punish via GCOD were connecting after the blocked/whiffed attack's counterhit window (i.e. during recovery rather than active/startup), so it could be more on a move-to-move basis?
mAc Chaos Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 You can't CH with GCOD. I don't see why you couldn't. Suppose Ragna does a blockstring and is already on his way into the next gatling while you gcOD. Then you CH him out of that next move.
Zouf Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 This hasn't been "confirmed" but that's one thing you can see in the videos from the last TGS. Houtenjin and others stuff never landed a CH in ragna's hell's fang. @mAc Chaos : apparently the game doesn't allow it. I can understand why. I'm just making assumptions here, but checking the videos you can see it by yourselves.
Errol Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 that depends how long you're in counterhit recovery right? if we saw them GCOD through houtenjin and not get a CH that'd be definitive, but hells fang isn't CH recovery till the end.
chzchan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 This hasn't been "confirmed" but that's one thing you can see in the videos from the last TGS. Houtenjin and others stuff never landed a CH in ragna's hell's fang. @mAc Chaos : apparently the game doesn't allow it. I can understand why. I'm just making assumptions here, but checking the videos you can see it by yourselves. I'll take a closer look at the videos and do some frame by frame stuff. May not help, but I want to know. What I am guessing, assuming you can CH out of ODR, is that in the videos the frame data of the moves used did not allow for enough time to actually achieve a CH. This is what I was talking about earlier. It really really depends on the moves that the opponent is using. This is, again, assuming that you can get a CH.
Verimeloni Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Ragna D inferno divider is 7 frame startup fatal counter. :P No idea if it LEADS to anything (though I hope so). Seems like it'd be a good Cancel-OD punish. I still feel like we know too little about how this mechanic functions to speculate too wildly though. Don't forget the OD: even at full health in the corner he can easily get a 4k combo anywhere on the screen. Cancel-OD throw counters anyone?
Narroo Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Of course, they may end up putting proration on GCOD combos, similar to counter assaults. You probably can't even finish a round off it.
chzchan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Of course, they may end up putting proration on GCOD combos, similar to counter assaults. You probably can't even finish a round off it. Actually, I think that would be a pretty okay thing to do. This will prevent ODRGETB from killing you if you have slightly less than half health and you made a wrong turn. I'm actually more for the "cannot kill" attribute than special proration with the OD counted as a starter with its own P1 or something like that. ODR should not allow you to take rounds, or at least that's how I feel about it. I mean, OD time is already shortened so the unburstable combo will already not be as long as could be for some characters depending on their health, but I'd be fine with both cannot kill and special proration if that could be a thing. This is because some characters like the earlier example of Tager will get optimal damage out of what can be done out of ODR regardless of how long OD lasts and that damage is amplified if he has 50 heat.
TagerTime Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Actually, I think that would be a pretty okay thing to do. This will prevent ODRGETB from killing you if you have slightly less than half health and you made a wrong turn. I'm actually more for the "cannot kill" attribute than special proration with the OD counted as a starter with its own P1 or something like that. ODR should not allow you to take rounds, or at least that's how I feel about it. I mean, OD time is already shortened so the unburstable combo will already not be as long as could be for some characters depending on their health, but I'd be fine with both cannot kill and special proration if that could be a thing. This is because some characters like the earlier example of Tager will get optimal damage out of what can be done out of ODR regardless of how long OD lasts and that damage is amplified if he has 50 heat. Losing to Tager is soooo not fair! He is so broken OP, please implement another system limitation for the sole purpose of handicapping Tager even more! In your dreams pal! If you make a wrong turn with less than half health against Tager you deserve to die. Suck it up and take the loss like a man.
NecroTheReaper Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 We're not talking about tager, we're talkin about GETB. It'll probably be one of the easiest DDs to use in conjunction with ODR due to its startup. As long as something has (if ODR is 16f) 21f duration left after you avoid it, its a reversal into an unburstable 6k. Because of a lot of things being bad on wiff, I can see this taking a lot more rounds than it currently is. To hell with gapless options meant to beat stuff like this, just ODR. Still too early to talk about it really. They need to give us a list of all final changes already dammit.
Runis Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 How would "ODR combo's cannot kill" only target tager? Sure it affects him harshly because ODR GETB is such a option but that's like saying "Only Tager can ODR" You successfully made them block and have them in block stun, it's not fair to you that you need to worry about losing the round because of an opponent's defensive option. Burst combos can't kill. CA combos can't kill. It only makes sense that ODR combos can't kill.
Zouf Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAfcIr_eKcc#t=4996 At 1:23:15 you can see ragna getting hit by houtenjin during a 2C I'm pretty sure 2C is in CH state till the end (i could be wrong here) but he doesn't get CH'ed Earlier in the video, you can also see makoto punishing Jin's 5C with 2A and still not getting a counter. Well these are not definite proofs but i still find it puzzling at least.
zaeris Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 How would "ODR combo's cannot kill" only target tager? Sure it affects him harshly because ODR GETB is such a option but that's like saying "Only Tager can ODR" You successfully made them block and have them in block stun, it's not fair to you that you need to worry about losing the round because of an opponent's defensive option. Burst combos can't kill. CA combos can't kill. It only makes sense that ODR combos can't kill. Lol it would almost make it arakune era, eat a CA into super + curse then die eventually. ODR a bad idea in general lol.
kosmos badgirl Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 2.0 opening directly from ASW. http://youtu.be/mmVv7RE26rw
White Man Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 2.0 opening directly from ASW. http://youtu.be/mmVv7RE26rw Cool! I think I slightly prefer the original arcade opening, but that was at least way better than the console opening. I'm surprised they never updated the logo. You can see at 0:30 that CHRONOPHANTASMA II is the new game's official subtitle, but the title logo is the exact same as the one they used for the original release.
Verimeloni Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAfcIr_eKcc#t=4996 At 1:23:15 you can see ragna getting hit by houtenjin during a 2C I'm pretty sure 2C is in CH state till the end (i could be wrong here) but he doesn't get CH'ed Earlier in the video, you can also see makoto punishing Jin's 5C with 2A and still not getting a counter. Well these are not definite proofs but i still find it puzzling at least. In those examples ODR seems to have some recovery so you can't just cancel any move into it to punish, cpu Ragna did the Hell's Fang follow-up even though the first hit was OD canceled.
NecroTheReaper Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Even if you -could- get a CH out of ODR, I dunno why you would ever use it without 50 meter anyway. If you couldn't outright just punish them using ODR with a DD, you could at least activate OD, buffer the input, and if they went for an attack, use a reversal. If not, you get a nearly free out unless they wait till after the superflash to hit you. You know what, the more I think about it, the more ODR sounds like a kinda bullshit chain shift.
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