mAc Chaos Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 A lot of the power of counters comes from the mind games -- it makes the player second guess themselves, and respect your defense. They have to change their play style to deal with the counters, and you get in their head. This gives you a lot more openings. But that only works if there's an actual reason to be scared of it -- if the counters do no damage, then it's pointless.
smooshman Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 so CSII is a big nerf bat for everyone? nah jin's looking goo- *sees 623D nerf* that seems about right.
psycofang2 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 A lot of the power of counters comes from the mind games -- it makes the player second guess themselves, and respect your defense. They have to change their play style to deal with the counters, and you get in their head. This gives you a lot more openings. But that only works if there's an actual reason to be scared of it -- if the counters do no damage, then it's pointless. they give stars and get the air tight bs off you. thats useful enough? or am i kidding myself...
mAc Chaos Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 they give stars and get the air tight bs off you. thats useful enough? or am i kidding myself... Why take the risk when you can just block or poke out? You get no damage off them, if you mess up or it whiffs, you're dead, and in CS everyone does an ass load of damage off every random poke. Might be different in CS2 though.
Henaki Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 A lot of the power of counters comes from the mind games -- it makes the player second guess themselves, and respect your defense. They have to change their play style to deal with the counters, and you get in their head. This gives you a lot more openings. But that only works if there's an actual reason to be scared of it -- if the counters do no damage, then it's pointless. If you think having an option that shuts downs options on reaction that is also not tied to a command motion is useless, you are dumb.
mAc Chaos Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 If you think having an option that shuts downs options on reaction that is also not tied to a command motion is useless, you are dumb. Cool story, bro. It serves a purpose; I use counters more than anyone. But the risk reward keeps getting stacked against it, is all I'm saying. I guess all those japanese Hakumen's are wrong.
psycofang2 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Why take the risk when you can just block or poke out? You get no damage off them, if you mess up or it whiffs, you're dead, and in CS everyone does an ass load of damage off every random poke. Might be different in CS2 though. well it may be a big help due to his slower meter gain. and it gives stars which can give you the tools needed to get ppl off you (hotaru) just now in CS2 if any of this sticks rushing down haku will have little to no fear in it. but that leave ppl more off guard.
Hecatom Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 now that you mention it, its true they nerfed his meter gain ratio too :{/
stunedge Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Carl JC is the move does knock down J2C is exactly the same JC kd> 3D relaunch confirmed
mAc Chaos Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) well it may be a big help due to his slower meter gain. and it gives stars which can give you the tools needed to get ppl off you (hotaru) just now in CS2 if any of this sticks rushing down haku will have little to no fear in it. but that leave ppl more off guard. Yeah, I'm just saying that his counters are even worse off than CS, which was worse off than CT, and in CT it was already inadvisable to use them. I think it makes more sense that the reward should justify the risk, especially since it's his drive. Sure, other reversals don't give that much damage either, but his drives now give no damage, and on top of that counters are harder to use and riskier anyway so they should get a little extra. (You don't have to decide between high/low/throw when doing a DP, for example.) Edited November 15, 2010 by mAc Chaos
Warhound Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 All that won't matter. Why? IB, once you IB 4C everything he does becomes a risk and wasting stars to get bodied during pressure is silly. Now if your talking about combo's then its gonna do crap damage unless they fixed 4C's P1. CSII Loctests: Pachi and Mori do meth instead. Wasn't being entirely serious about that post. I do realize the dangers in Kishuu'ing up to your opponents. But if you can condition them to block a lot more, mix-up might become an option. Not a big one mind you, just an option.
OmniSScythe Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Hahahahaha no. I love how everyone overestimates Makoto. In fact, Makoto and Tager players should be bros now. Low tier to even lower tier, get hype. He IS right about the damage, she's just not Arakune with it.
Rhiya Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Cool story, bro. It serves a purpose; I use counters more than anyone. But the risk reward keeps getting stacked against it, is all I'm saying. I guess all those japanese Hakumen's are wrong. Nerfed meter gain + one magatama per counter = useful counter. Besides, counter should still get them off you. That's more than enough.
HiagoX Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Carl JC is the move does knock down J2C is exactly the same JC kd> 3D relaunch confirmed Well, there you go Zong. Thanks, Stunedge.
farranpoison Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 He IS right about the damage, she's just not Arakune with it. Large damage means nothing if you have very little ways to get it. Fuck, I'd love it if her crazy damage was nerfed but she got better normals in exchange.
HiagoX Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Large damage means nothing if you have very little ways to get it. Fuck, I'd love it if her crazy damage was nerfed but she got better normals in exchange. That's true, but it does not deny the fact that she DOES have large damage output. And I agree with you regarding the adjustment.
ZONG_one Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Thank you stunedge. <3 (I want more matches next time you come to Cali.) and thanks for pointing it out to me Hiago. <3
Klaige Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 CS2 changes still seem like a shotgun spread attempt to me, but i'll wait til the final version to see the true results. One thing is for sure, if most of these changes hold we are going to see a #R to Slash sort of decrease in overall damage. Right now, if I was an Arakune player i would be feeling pretty good right now however for a couple of reasons: Even though his damage is down too, going from 10k to 8k is a massive boon compared to much of the cast. The game is shifting to being coner-centric for it's damage. Assuming those 8k combos are still possible midscreen, Arakune has a huge advantage just in his ability to outdamage the rest of the cast based on opportunities. Many of the zoning tools that could be a thorn to Arakune (Hazama's Chains, Lambdas Swords) are seeing some nerfs. In general a lot of the changes will probably even themselves out amongs the cast, but I'd be lying if i wasn't concerned that Arakune could become too strong just based on his ability to outdamage everyone by a huge margin.
Ownagepuffs Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 BBCSII? More like BB: Jin Bias edition. Notice that both Jin and "Jin" seem to always get the long end of the stick in these tests? I approve 120% though :D Loving Jin, but now I will be a considered a tier whore, like CT Bang mainers. Such is life, though.
Mumm-Ra Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 In general a lot of the changes will probably even themselves out amongs the cast, but I'd be lying if i wasn't concerned that Arakune could become too strong just based on his ability to outdamage everyone by a huge margin. You have to take into account his nerfs during precurse too, less curse on block, slower 6A (wich was pretty slow to begin with), slower jump (?), worse backdash, Clouds have less duration, etc., it's not like he just had a damage nerf. He's looking alright at the moment though, specially that full recurse during curse combos bullshit, I hope they take that out.
smooshman Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) BBCSII? More like BB: Jin Bias edition. Notice that both Jin and "Jin" seem to always get the long end of the stick in these tests? I approve 120% though :D Loving Jin, but now I will be a considered a tier whore, like CT Bang mainers. Such is life, though. not really his bad shit is still shit, just for different reasons. the fact that you gain less meter after spending it really hurts. that said he's certainly looking better off than a lot of the cast.... except bang and litchi. Edited November 16, 2010 by smooshman
MasterMind Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 There's something I've been wondering about. Assuming the changes make it over to the consoles, how will it impact Challenge Mode? A lot of the things being changed (Hazama and Mu's 3c's being techable, for example) are used repeatedly in Challenge Mode trials. Are they just going to add in new trials to replace the old, obsolete ones now or what? If so will you have to redo those challenges? Sorry if this is stupid, but it's been bugging me.
Justice7541 Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Moral of this story, stop complaining about Bang's 5A. The move went through: CT location tests>Final Game *took a slight nerf from CT to CS by not being able to gatling into itself or whatever* CS location tests>Final Game and now 5 CS2 location tests and still is what it is. Obviously if they haven't changed it after all this time, it isn't something worth complaining about. Unless you live in America apparently because the Japanese don't seem to have a problem with it that's worth fixing. Yo Bang's 5A got a huge buff in CS, or did you forget? It sucked in CT. not really his bad shit is still shit, just for different reasons. the fact that you gain less meter after spending it really hurts. that said he's certainly looking better off than a lot of the cast.... except bang and litchi. Lol Jin has bad moves now? I must have missed a loketest or something somewhere down the line.
smooshman Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 Lol Jin has bad moves now? I must have missed a loketest or something somewhere down the line. apparently, rehyou got worse, 6A got... well it gor more changed than nerfed, but 2C is still ass, and 3C (duh).
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