chzchan Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 You're talking about the step forward, right?
TeeJay Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I was practicing some anti-air and cross-up reaction training mode things with the random playback recording feature. I tend to use 1C anti-airs or 1 for a lot of lows since I sometimes mistakingly 3c on stick. I noticed when the Ragna cpu recording tried to IAD crossup, my 1C input turned into a 3C in the other direction. Does that ghetto option select have any usefulness at all? Think it'll low profile cross-ups? It seems sketchy and unreliable in timing. I wonder if I was just reacting really late. Does anyone use the multiple recordings like this for simple/other fundamental things? I could use anything useful. lol I was making randomly SF4 jump in recordings just to speed up my shoryuken reaction speeds.
Airk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Honestly, I don't know what they changed that causes this - it might be the removal of the 5BB step forward - I just know that this combo wasn't a problem in earlier iterations of the game. Actually, that spawns an honest question; Why would you not use 236A ALL the time in this combo? You'd only be losing a tiny bit of damage (the BASE damage difference between these two moves is 100, and after 4 normals beforehand it's going to be more like 50); I guess the reduced hitstun on 236A could theoretically make 214B harder to connect, but there's still a couple of frames of leeway and it's just a mashable cancel anyway, so... why not use 236A all the time if it compensates for spacing issues? Or are there situations in which it doesn't work?
zaeris Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 im just thinking maybe they didnt want easy command grab set up? with a 5bb moving forward, although I would think it would boost tsubaki mix up greatly. you can do 5bb -> delay command grab but there are spacing issue and timing issue and barrier lol, but if command grab from 5bb could be triggered from most distance of 5bb poke would be amazing,
chzchan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 See what I really wish we had is a move or something aside from 6C that pushed us forward prominently. You know like Bullet's 5C or Ragna's/Jin's Dash cancellable moves.
zaeris Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Let see what October 9th bring us, I'm actually ready for doom and gloom and it might be time to move on if tsubaki stays similar lowish. Hopefully some actually changes......
Airk Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Let see what October 9th bring us, I'm actually ready for doom and gloom and it might be time to move on if tsubaki stays similar lowish. Hopefully some actually changes...... I expect doom and gloom, so anything that doesn't suck will be a pleasant surprise. Anyway, if that's the reason they nerfed 5BB, that's BS, because as usual, that's something that would've been TOTALLY OKAY on most other characters, but is inexplicably an "OH NO! Tsubaki might get something STRONG!" for Tsu. Lame.
JyakotuKurayami Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Let see what October 9th bring us, I'm actually ready for doom and gloom and it might be time to move on if tsubaki stays similar lowish. Hopefully some actually changes...... Honestly, 2.0 will decide whether or not if I'll continue to stay with Tsubaki. I think it's kind of BS they nerfed the character for no reason, especially when other characters in the cast does rushdown better. I was excited to pick her up, but there's only so much I can do. Not saying that I prefer easy victories, but I'd at least like some balanced match ups here. I still think they should make her charging faster and make charging more viable.
Zouf Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I actually believe she has no awful matchups. She can deal with most situations. Her worst matchup to me is Jin, because he's Tsubaki with better everything, and maybe Litchi (which is the worst MU for many characters) We'll see.
zaeris Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Honestly, 2.0 will decide whether or not if I'll continue to stay with Tsubaki. I think it's kind of BS they nerfed the character for no reason, especially when other characters in the cast does rushdown better. I was excited to pick her up, but there's only so much I can do. Not saying that I prefer easy victories, but I'd at least like some balanced match ups here. I still think they should make her charging faster and make charging more viable. My main issue referring to someone's post in tsubaki q&a do I have to learn new combo for bbcp 1.1 and it goes no she very much the same except from my view same but with less option. Now if bbcp 2.0 comes out and tsubaki is samish but with even lesser option that would be the final nail on the coffin for me. Hope they do someone dramatic to add proper freshness to her character, otherwise it's going in a boring direction, even Ragna got very cool addition in each iteration. Maybe I should pray for fixes first before I ask for new option xD
Airk Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 My main issue referring to someone's post in tsubaki q&a do I have to learn new combo for bbcp 1.1 and it goes no she very much the same except from my view same but with less option. Now if bbcp 2.0 comes out and tsubaki is samish but with even lesser option that would be the final nail on the coffin for me. Hope they do someone dramatic to add proper freshness to her character, otherwise it's going in a boring direction, even Ragna got very cool addition in each iteration. Maybe I should pray for fixes first before I ask for new option xD I'm going to repeat myself for the umpteenth time here: Tsubaki does not need or even WANT "new options" Tsubaki needs for the options she has (she has a LOT) to be useful.
TeeJay Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I actually believe she has no awful matchups. She can deal with most situations. Her worst matchup to me is Jin, because he's Tsubaki with better everything, and maybe Litchi (which is the worst MU for many characters) We'll see. Do you mean Tsubaki? I may be in general agreement with you reluctantly. She doesn't have anything ridiculously lopsided. I'm no talent at all but i'm free to the Jin matchup and have also been struggling against Mu. I don't like playing Koko, Bullet (normals), Az (just due to his damage), and Ragna can be annoying. i'm having trouble recalling characters. i definitely don't approach any matchup thinking Tsubaki got this free. Oddly, I'm okay with Litchi but that's probably because I played her since CT.
zaeris Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I'm going to repeat myself for the umpteenth time here: Tsubaki does not need or even WANT "new options" Tsubaki needs for the options she has (she has a LOT) to be useful. Maybe you should take it as a personal opinion, although I did say she needed fixes first lol. Last paragraph, last line.
Kiba Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I actually believe she has no awful matchups. She can deal with most situations. Her worst matchup to me is Jin FFS go away man
TheGreatReptar Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Lmao at Jin being her worst matchup. It's like Bang and all the characters that are actually good don't exist or something
chzchan Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Honestly, 2.0 will decide whether or not if I'll continue to stay with Tsubaki. I think it's kind of BS they nerfed the character for no reason, especially when other characters in the cast does rushdown better. I was excited to pick her up, but there's only so much I can do. Not saying that I prefer easy victories, but I'd at least like some balanced match ups here. I still think they should make her charging faster and make charging more viable. I'm too loyal to even think of not playing her. I'm both scared and excited for the super duper subtle frame data and property changes of each of her moves because they may potentially lead to new gimmicks and combo routes.
Monarch Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Out of curiosity, what's our *best* matchup? My guess would be Bullet?
chzchan Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 HAHAHAHA HELL NO Bullet is like Tsubaki+ without a run type dash. Her resource system (with passive benefits), normals, range of confirms and damage are all immensely better than Tsubaki's. The only thing that she is really lacking in when compared to Tsubaki is mixup. I mean, she even has ways of keeping people grounded and not jumping which is something that Tsubaki really really really doesn't have. Our best matchup is Tsubaki by far and maybe Makoto. Also, something on the side. Here's a new gimmick sort of. It combines a few different things that already kind of exist. So what I have seen some Tsubaki players do is go 236X > 214B > 22[D] > 6C > 421A(delay) midscreen in order to maybe trap someone with the fireball after they wake up. It has to be delayed a bit for it to work, but it really depends on what your opponent decides to do. What I tried out is instead of using 6C, you use 6B. When you use 6C or 6A, your opponent is grounded and there is quite a bit of untech time. When you use 6B, it knocks your opponent slightly off the ground and enables emergency tech upon reaching the ground, so regardless of what direction they are holding when they touch the ground assuming they are holding A, B, or C in order to tech as early as possible, they will neutral tech. If they delay their tech enough to attempt a roll, they will be hit with the projectile and it will go blue, so they really can't do much aside from neutral tech. One subtlety to note is that you can't be right up in their face when you use 6B because the projectile will whiff if they neutral tech due to its 1.1 speed. You have to be about a Tsubaki length away when you do it. Having them neutral tech is the boring part, though. If they actually delay or try to roll and it does go blue, you won't really be able to combo and a tech window will open up in the air for them. Really fun fun thing that happens if they forward or backward tech is (guess what) the same kind of short hop that happens when I use my regular old corner reset with the 214B SMP and 6C. So this can lead into the reset if they forward air tech or backward air tech near the corner and you get automeaty (that is non-Ranga DP safe) if they neutral air tech. Again, loses to slightly delayed neutral tech etc. Been trying this out recently and it is pretty great. I wish it didn't cost 1 dingle to use, though. Instead of standing a Tsubaki length away you can actually delay it just like with 6C and get the same effect. Leaves you closer to the opponent when they get hit with the ball so you can maintain pressure, but it also leaves you in 421A's recovery for a longer time. Not sure which one is better.
Kiba Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Bullet is like Tsubaki+ without a run type dash. Her resource system (with passive benefits), normals, range of confirms and damage are all immensely better than Tsubaki's. The only thing that she is really lacking in when compared to Tsubaki is mixup. Please read this again and evaluate. Don't come back here until you do.
chzchan Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 You mean emphasizing the things that Bullet has that are better when compared to Tsubaki while still blatantly mentioning the things that Tsubaki has better than Bullet in the argument but making them seem not as bad as they actually are in making it hard for Bullet to fight Tsubaki? Not having a very good mixup and not being able to close distance or run away as effectively etc. I usually try to think before I post but sometimes I don't and I let the victim complex get the better of me. I still really hate fighting Bullet because if I let her get heat and heat up it turns into the Tager matchup though I shouldn't let that cloud my eyes. Sorry about that. I still don't think the matchup is in Tsubaki's favor. Bullet has matchups that are just as bad as Tsubaki's worst ones because of the things that she lacks, especially when she doesn't have resources. I believe that this one is at least probably close to even with Bullet on top.
Airk Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I really don't enjoy the Bullet matchup either; It doesn't seem bad (except for her goddamn 2B) until she gets a heat up level (which is virtually impossible to prevent unless you never get hit) and then it's "Hooray my drives are all plus on block (or at least even) and if I hit you with them I get 4k+" It also generally seems that she's way more capable of getting damage at max range on her normals. I would FAR rather fight, say, Ragna than Bullet.
Zouf Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 FFS go away man No? It's my opinion, you would be nice to respect it. Thanks.
chzchan Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I'm going to repeat myself for the umpteenth time here: Tsubaki does not need or even WANT "new options" Tsubaki needs for the options she has (she has a LOT) to be useful. She has a lot of practical options and a lot of potential options, but I would say that pretty much all of them are garbage compared to most characters' or at least Tsubaki has to work much harder to get them to look like they work so that the opponent respects them. Other characters also happen to maintain a lot of their defensive options when up against Tsubaki which is one of the things that makes it hard to win. You need the right type of respect/disrespect in the right places at the right times for her pressure to even keep people on the ground. I just want her to be scary is all. She isn't scary enough. She isn't scary at all.
Kiba Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 No? It's my opinion, you would be nice to respect it. Thanks. Do what you want mate. Sure I would be nice to respect it, but no. I am not a nice person, therefore I don't respect it. This isn't the first time you have said something so shocking. What is wrong with you? Seriously? Jin? Tell me something. Do you have a lot of good matchup experience? Do you have a lot of good Kokonoe experience? I don't think you have a lot of MU exp, and if you do, it isn't to a good degree. Fuck sake this forum man. Use some common sense.
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