ThunderboltZ28 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Yeah, it's annoying, but short block strings, 6b, 6c, and charge cancels are your friend. After 6B what can you do? I'll end a string with 6B > 22C and back dash away to charge a bit.
Daedron Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 After 6B what can you do? I'll end a string with 6B > 22C and back dash away to charge a bit. That's the safest thing you can do, you can dash 5A but if the opponent knows this you'll get counter hit. that's why it might be best to use 6B - 22C a bit before mixing it up with 6B - dash 5A - stuff. Keeps them honest cause 22C will counter hit them if they try to push a button after 6B, once you have taught them they cannot do that, then you can reset your pressure with 6B. Though the reward for landing a 22C counter hit is so low I wonder if certain opponents might just try and press buttons regardless because them hitting you with a 2A leads into at minimum double the damage of what we would get off of a 22C counter hit :V
redsilversnake Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 IIRC, Taokaka also got a changed j.B, while the old one became j.2B. And Airk, they totally don't have similar playstyles. Ragna is "offensive and footsies" and Tsubaki is "rushdown, mix-up and flashy." ...Yeah, the wiki's pretty silly.
Errol Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 What daedron said, but specifically for vs barrier. Barrier pushes back, but it has a penalty on blockstun that makes 6b +2. Makes it a bit easier but you'll still probably get hit if you try to reset pressure. That is, if they are really mashing jab. but, 6b still provides a frame advantage. If the spacing is right, you can just repeat it. 5b>6b>5b>6b. THey can jump out, if you're predictable.. but this also provides a way of baiting mashing that doesn't instantly end your pressure if you 5b->6b->22c and they just block, pressure is over. 5b->6b->5b will beat almost everything at the right spacing, but if they block it leads back into 6b again.. and the longer you make them block when they're using barrier, the better. Barrier is limited.. a basic block string pattern of 5a->5c->6b works well because you can opt to reset your pressure at basically every link of the string, and if they guess wrong where you're going to reset, they get hit.
BatousaiJ Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I basically get jabbed out of 6B ender continuation. I've been DP'ed afterwards but it's one of those situations where if you want to punish it, you really have to commit to doing so before you can see that the pressure stopped at 6B. I can't count how many times I've gotten a CH on a quick dash 5A after 6B when they try to press a button. I would sometimes throw in a delayed 6BB, 6B > 22C, 6BB > 22C. There's a lot of flexibility in what you can do to get in your opponent's head to really make sure they're not committing to anything before they can actually see it.
pktazn Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 Also on the subject of frame data, 6C doesn't have its hitstop disparity listed, which is important to know for special cancel combos where the extra hitstop is what makes it work (7f for opponent but 2 for Tsubaki). This is for Extend right? The mook didn't provide that kind of information from kayeff's translations.
Airk Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Also on the subject of frame data, 6C doesn't have its hitstop disparity listed, which is important to know for special cancel combos where the extra hitstop is what makes it work (7f for opponent but 2 for Tsubaki). The EX Frame Data basically doesn't have ANY of the hitstop stuff in it that CS2 did, which is why all kinds of things make absolutely no sense if you try to figure them out (like, the frame advantage practically every 236/214/22 special). This is part of my conspiracy theory that says that Arksys doesn't realize they forgot to fix all the hitstop stuff, and that's why our frame advantage is so bad now. And yes, 6A is just THAT slow. There are literally no normals where normal>RC>6A is safe from being jabbed/thrown. You just need to condition them to die if they mash.
Adelheid Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 This is for Extend right? The mook didn't provide that kind of information from kayeff's translations. I'm pretty sure. It was in the CS2 frame data and it's REALLY evident that it's still there with the otg 6C jc j.C delay C land 5C combo.
pktazn Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 Hopefully they won't use this company again for the mook. I can add that to the wiki frame data page since you're sure.
Daedron Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 Please Arc Sys, please re-design Arakune to not be such a horribly one-sided character in BB3. And make him unable to do 5AAAAA into that knockaway move, please make Arakunes actually hitconfirm stuff for once :V
Osmond Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Gah, all you rich kids with your fancy video games. I never know what you guys are talking about. Please Arc Sys, please re-design Arakune to not be such a horribly one-sided character in BB3. And make him unable to do 5AAAAA into that knockaway move, please make Arakunes actually hitconfirm stuff for once :V Hahaha...Arakune hitconfirming. had a particularly painful experience with Arakune recently? Well when is fighting arakune not painful? ignoring Lambda, Mu and Hazama hur hur hur
Daedron Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Hahaha...Arakune hitconfirming. had a particularly painful experience with Arakune recently? Well when is fighting arakune not painful? ignoring Lambda, Mu and Hazama hur hur hur Yes, yes indeed :V
Demon Wind Bomb Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Hey guys, was Tsubaki better in CS1 or CSX? Please Arc Sys, please re-design Arakune to not be such a horribly one-sided character in BB3. And make him unable to do 5AAAAA into that knockaway move, please make Arakunes actually hitconfirm stuff for once :V Removing curse on block might help. Why he can do this I will never know.
Tari Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Removing curse on block might help. Why he can do this I will never know. What would the tradeoff be? Better amounts of curse on hit? Curse accumulating on block is hardly the reason Arakune can faceroll people sometimes, haha. I don't really have a huge problem with Arakune, but I can understand the issues people have with the way he plays.
Errol Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 What would it take for mugen to actually be useful.. besides scrapping it and replacing it with a 50 heat -> 3 charge super? Maybe if you could end mugen by charging in the middle (in case of burst)? Or just end mugen if you get hit. Dunno, hope they do something next time around.
BatousaiJ Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 What's wrong with Mugen? It leads to max damage and tons of corner carry + ending with untechable charge time in many common scenarios. What else are you looking for exactly?
Errol Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) What's wrong with Mugen? It leads to max damage and tons of corner carry + ending with untechable charge time in many common scenarios. What else are you looking for exactly? Basically, I guess looking to not be hosed if they burst out of it. Cause I can't remember it being used effectively in any recent videos. It's only good in very specific scenarios (generally, 1 charge, or 5 charges, or maybe 2 charges for certain spots , ie throw), and kinda depends on them having no bursts. You have to use it very early on in any combo for it to be worth it.. What are the many common scenarios? Tell me when you use it. 3CC RC is generally better if you can stick it in, it seems. I also kind of feel like the only reason we use these options is because 236236C is so terrible now. If they buff 236236C, which seems logical, then when would mugen get used? off a 6a starter, you already get more damage by using a 236236C than by using a mugen. Edited March 11, 2012 by Errol
ThunderboltZ28 Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Hey guys, was Tsubaki better in CS1 or CSX? She is better in CSX.
SolarMisae Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Tsu was one of, if not the worst character in CS1. She's very solid in CSX. You can't count out any of the cast in this version. The top and bottom tiers aren't that far at all imo.
Adelheid Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Basically, I guess looking to not be hosed if they burst out of it. Cause I can't remember it being used effectively in any recent videos. It's only good in very specific scenarios (generally, 1 charge, or 5 charges, or maybe 2 charges for certain spots , ie throw), and kinda depends on them having no bursts. You have to use it very early on in any combo for it to be worth it.. What are the many common scenarios? Tell me when you use it. 3CC RC is generally better if you can stick it in, it seems. I also kind of feel like the only reason we use these options is because 236236C is so terrible now. If they buff 236236C, which seems logical, then when would mugen get used? off a 6a starter, you already get more damage by using a 236236C than by using a mugen. Whoa, what's wrong with 2 charge mugen combos? I'm okay with full screen corner press and 800 more damage than a 1-charge combo would do.
BatousaiJ Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Basically, I guess looking to not be hosed if they burst out of it. Cause I can't remember it being used effectively in any recent videos. It's only good in very specific scenarios (generally, 1 charge, or 5 charges, or maybe 2 charges for certain spots , ie throw), and kinda depends on them having no bursts. You have to use it very early on in any combo for it to be worth it.. What are the many common scenarios? Tell me when you use it. 3CC RC is generally better if you can stick it in, it seems. I also kind of feel like the only reason we use these options is because 236236C is so terrible now. If they buff 236236C, which seems logical, then when would mugen get used? off a 6a starter, you already get more damage by using a 236236C than by using a mugen. Even if 236236C DD was back to CS 2 status, we'd still be using Mugen in its current iteration. It's too late and I'm really too tired to boot up the game to give you exact data but if you're looking for common scenarios, 5A/j.C > 5CC > 1 Charge Mugen Combo is a very common scenario which leads to very good damage, positional advantage while ending with some easy charge time. Same thing with j.CC > 2 Charge Air Mugen combo near the corner. And you really can't compare any none Mugen combos when you goto the 5 charge combos where you build 50 heat during the combo to end with a 236236D which has a fantastic minimum damage. Even in worst case scenario they burst a high charge mugen combo, it's not like the mugen mode ends immediately. It's still active and you can get in on them with stupid shit like 236D > (LOL press buttons) 623D > j.236D > j.214D > and etc etc just keeping it going where they would be kind of be foolish to press buttons because you're just canceling from one D move to the next giving them very little room to maneuver. You're just putting too much emphasis on bursts which honestly isn't that bad of a trade if you're expanding 1 charge and 50 heat to make them use up their burst(you can build more meter and charges during a match, they can't build up more bursts). In fact, you keep bring it up to the point you almost make it sound like they can't burst non-mugen combos and well, we know that's not true. I've won many games where I was able to hitconfirm into max damage mugen combos when they had used up all their bursts and plenty more where I've been able to successfully burst bait people with 214D shenanigans. Anyhow, I understand that it might be difficult to work it into your repetoire but having used it countless times in my many fights I can honestly say it's pretty worth using and definitely an aspect of Tsubaki every serious Tsu player should be aware of.
pktazn Posted March 11, 2012 Author Posted March 11, 2012 I'm fine with how Mugen is this iteration considering all the buffs they did to it and hope they keep some of what they added in the next iteration. I think it feels a bit harder to add it to how we play because there was absolutely no reason to use it beforehand except to look pwetty... and troll so we're not used to using it or are familiar with it. Now we actually do have benefits to using it instead of it just sitting there being a place holder on our movelist. So even though the risk is high when using it, as I'm sure many would agree, at least we actually get rewarded well for successfully pulling it off.
Errol Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Whoa, what's wrong with 2 charge mugen combos? I'm okay with full screen corner press and 800 more damage than a 1-charge combo would do. Damage depends when you start it. There are some starters where a mugen combo is a clear gain. 2 charge mugen combo usually means you're burning an extra charge, and 50 heat, for that damage. Most of our combos have some crazy carry, so that also depends on where it is being used. There's jCC in the air, if you have 2 charges, but then again I'd also be thinking about just doing jC and probably getting a CH combo for a good what, 2700ish at no charge cost and no heat cost. I'm trying to think about where it's good to work it in - help me out here. 5a5cc>mugen is effective, and it's easy to confirm INTO mugen, but not so good currently at confirming a block into a charge cancel to continue pressure. maybe 6a>5cc>mugen, when the 6a isn't a counter hit? Edited March 11, 2012 by Errol
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