Ronove Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) to be fair i think red RCs would definitely be used to convert off glancing hits (e.g. max range faust f.S rRC, run up pogo?) or random confirms in general (e.g. when are slayers going to confirm non-CH it's late into RC?). and then there's situations where you simply need to RC to continue (e.g. may 6K). these functions are not replaced by FRC Sure, but if it were to be reduced to that then it would sort of defeat the purpose of Xrd of putting more emphasis on 50% RCs. Xrd already has YRCs which cost 25%. Let's suppose we bring in FRCs too on some of the moves of each character. With the way Xrd's RC system works (slowdowns), it's pretty hard to imagine a situation where a player would purposely decide not to spend 25% for both YRCs and FRCs rather than purposely deciding to save more meter for 50% RCs, even with the amazingly quick meter gain that Xrd has. Red/Purple RCs would become more "occasional" tools rather than being equally important. Edited March 7, 2014 by Ronove
XXXDC Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Eh? Current Xrd system doesn't need FRC's... or even FB.
mof0nzo Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 as SuperJ mentioned, there'd be plenty of moves that wouldn't have FRC points, so there would be situations where RRC could be useful. also, since there is time slow for RCs in Xrd, RRC can be more useful than standard RC was in +R. FRC would have a lot less (or zero) time slow, so some combos/pressure may only work with RRC. the Xrd Millias can still YRC for their neutral shenanigans, but when they get the hit, they can do more damage with the same amount of meter. that also means more interesting combos since you can extend them longer. i see your point, but i don't think adding FRC would kill any depth or make RRC non-usable. however, i do not mind RRC being way more situational than FRC. sorry for the troll accusations, i was joking. you make a fair point. i do appreciate Xrd the way it is now, it just sucks i can't do as many alpha blade loops anymore btw i'm not clear on my GG history. when was FRC added, has it existed since the beginning?
D.R.F. Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Added at xx I think Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Ronove Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 as SuperJ mentioned, there'd be plenty of moves that wouldn't have FRC points, so there would be situations where RRC could be useful. also, since there is time slow for RCs in Xrd, RRC can be more useful than standard RC was in +R. FRC would have a lot less (or zero) time slow, so some combos/pressure may only work with RRC. the Xrd Millias can still YRC for their neutral shenanigans, but when they get the hit, they can do more damage with the same amount of meter. that also means more interesting combos since you can extend them longer. i see your point, but i don't think adding FRC would kill any depth or make RRC non-usable. however, i do not mind RRC being way more situational than FRC. sorry for the troll accusations, i was joking. you make a fair point. i do appreciate Xrd the way it is now, it just sucks i can't do as many alpha blade loops anymore btw i'm not clear on my GG history. when was FRC added, has it existed since the beginning? Don't worry about it. I am not saying that FRCs wouldn't be welcome, it's just that in my eyes they would be far too good given the way Xrd system is. As for Millia, think of this: in ACR you can S Tandem FRC in order to keep pressuring the opponent. It's a pretty good option for only 25% (though not as great as haircar FRC). In Xrd you see Millias doing 5S 5H RC instead. Now it's clear it would be better to just spend 25% rather than 50%, but if by absurd we were to include that FRC in Xrd, how many times do you think we'd be seeing Millia purposely saving 50% if she has both YRCs and FRCs available both for setplay and for specific hitconfirms? Yeah, maybe there would still be occasions where a red RC has its fair and legit uses but it would go against the purpose of making players ponder on meter management. They would likely pick the 25% routes (YRCs and FRCs) more often and leave the 50% ones for the situational scenarios.
mof0nzo Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 @Ronove: and you'd prefer the current Xrd scenario because it forces you to "make decisions" with your meter. i can appreciate that.
youcanwonder Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Alot of chars use frc's in act that don't lead into hard knockdowns...just based on the char u play. I use baiken quite often along w zappas
STenSatsu Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 People really want their FRCs back. To be fair, they were one of the best things about GG. However, I think that YRCs maintain most of the creative uses that FRCs really brought to light, while not smothering offensive 50% meter options out like FRCs did.
Ronove Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 @Ronove: and you'd prefer the current Xrd scenario because it forces you to "make decisions" with your meter. Well... yes and no. I mean, I really liked Millia's FBs and FRCs in ACR, but I can see the reasoning behind Xrd's system and it looks pretty interesting too because it's not a "dumbed down" revision but rather a different approach to meter management. I am curious to see more and more YRC and hopefully PRC applications in setplay. On paper YRCs could be providing even more depth than FRCs did.
Dandy J Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 f frcs its time to move on. the more i think about the new system, the smarter/better it seems to me
Henaki Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) i like the new rc system a lot better too. its about as intuitive and has less emphasis on denying options to newer players through design. a lot of the difficulty will come out naturally in yrcs which is fine. the new system seems to put a lot more emphasis on using all of the meter options at your disposal instead of mostly the more powerful 25% ones like in AC. imo the biggest reason people arent gona like the new system is its definitely subtracting the most egregious points of power from characters universally, so everything feels "nerfed", but its adding more versatility since your best meter options arent generally tied to a couple of specific things. the new system will afford more player diversity and moment to moment creativity. people are just wehhhing because "i dont have a powerful thing anymore" which is understandable because the power of frcs felt cool. the meter system got understandably rebalanced which resulted in a definite nerf in understood power. if you dont think the meter system was imbalanced and made meter decisions less interesting then you're a dumb idiot but its fine to go "i miss frcs because they were fun and powerful" and you havent played with the new system which will almost certainly offer fun and power in a different way. it should be noted that power imbalance is what makes asymmetrical games fun. "i get to do this things thats better than your thing" always feels good, so removal of FRCs is definitely a subtraction of fun, but because knowledge of subtraction is easier to perceive than knowledge of (new) addition, people can understand the nerfs more than the buffs that replaced it. tl;dr: frc nerfs feel worse than the buffs no one on this forum can play with yet based off not actually playing the game. frc nerfs subtract fun power, and the fun power gained in compensation is not easy to understand so people mad about frc removal have every right to go "its not fun". however, its heatlhier for the game now that your meter decisions arent as clear cut. Edited March 7, 2014 by Henaki
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 That was really well said Hanaki. Same here, very good post honestly.
reaVer Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 My 2 cent about the YRC vs FRC debate... Yes, I know nobody gives a damn but I'm gonna give them anyway: I find the YRC a LOT more appealing than the old FRC system. No more silly timing windows, no muscle memory issues, just press and go; I like it. I see no purpose in making this kind of system hard (like the FRC system is) as far as options and playability goes. However, how many moves in +R were direct hit and FRCable afterwards? There might be a handful of them, but Order Sol for example had none, Sol had none, Ky had none, etc. Most moves in AC / +R that had an FRC before or on the first active frame and that means for 90% of the cases, the FRC system and the YRC system are giving you the same results, yet one of these two systems does it with a lot less effort than the other. Then there's the space created by the new RC and YRCs, which allow you to perform chains previously not possible. The fact you're giving it away and you don't have a giant trackball covering your next move, are a few of the things that will probably be missed. I think a lot of people on this forum are rather protective on how they have invested their time. And yes, to people like us, it is probably a little unfair to pull us down to easymode level with the noobz. On the other hand, most moves have a YRC window where the move actually goes in effect and that means doing it to early would mean nothing comes out and doing it too late would mean you're losing frames in recovery. This is something where skill is built or rebuilt. I wouldn't even be surprised if our FRC timings are the best YRC timings as well. On a more practical note however... Who of you here decided to show up regularly at tournaments before learning the (important) FRC windows of their character?
Ronove Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I think a lot of people on this forum are rather protective on how they have invested their time. And yes, to people like us, it is probably a little unfair to pull us down to easymode level with the noobz. It's "unfair" if you think about the time one might have invested into learning certain necessary FRCs but I wouldn't say it got dumbed down. It's just a purely execution matter, and that's it really. Having YRCs and RCs being easier to pull off is not substracting anything at all from the game's depth. A fighting game's depth doesn't lie in the execution but simply on how much the player is forced to actively think and react during a match. Look at VF5, it's a game that doesn't really require any exceptional execution skills bar a few exceptions, and it still is immensely deep. And of course I am not saying that execution isn't important because otherwise we'd all be playing chess rather than fighting games, but certainly I do not despise ArcSys' attempt to have the players think less about execution barriers and think more about how to outsmart their opponents.
Jocelot Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Corner HS Carcass Raid YRC the gawd Is there some footage I'm missing?!
Destin Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 And of course I am not saying that execution isn't important because otherwise we'd all be playing chess rather than fighting games, but certainly I do not despise ArcSys' attempt to have the players think less about execution barriers and think more about how to outsmart their opponents. I think the level of depth in some of the spacing in fighting games at least approaches that of chess, I hear the analogy a lot but I don't agree with it.
ElvenShadow Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I like the new system. I think once you all play it you will find that you don't really miss FRCs.
Sanger Zonvolt Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I think the level of depth in some of the spacing in fighting games at least approaches that of chess, I hear the analogy a lot but I don't agree with it. I don't think it implies that fighting games don't have depth comparable to Chess, only that Chess is 100% strategy and requires no reflexes.
SolxBaiken Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I like the new system. I think once you all play it you will find that you don't really miss FRCs. YRC Kabari should be all sorts of fun, and being able to consistently land YRC Tatami will save me a world of frustrations oh my science....YRC Suzuran... :D Oh wait...
Mumm-Ra Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I hope you implied that YRC Tatami isn't possible not because Baiken isn't in, but because you can't do YRCs during hitstun
Recommended Posts