FatalCounter Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I lol at Kagura's DP. Maybe it will change from a Kagura players POV, but I easily see Relius as one of his toughest matchups. I havnt ever found a need to go for mixup, oki, or pressure because you can just challenge him for full screen neutral control and land CH's. His 6D~C I've only ever seen eat up 22x and even if he's in range to hit you with it, 236Aing his drive mixup gives you a free CH. Honestly I feel like they needed to take his DP combos... and convert them into a good dash speed/air speed/SOMETHING that can help him in neutral. PS: This matchup is my fav in CP, watching myself either destroy or getting bodied by 5k midscreen combos is great. Also 236A actually bein useful here. This, lol. I am sure you play vs turtle Kaguras who just throw fireballs and 6DC and wait you to jump and DP, right? I am a pink Kagura player and by playing Relius too I know exactly the matchup. Don't get me wrong Relius is good vs Kagura but the way I play it you will be so surprised and get bodied as most of Relius players I face. I don't have to throw drives and Fireballs fullscreen why? and I can dodge all your Ignis and fireball zoning by just super jumping and Drive to stay in the air and cancel it before landing. Even Val Tus is not a true blockstring so I can either DP some mixups attempts or super after the last hit. I can easily DP Ignis super and pass to the other side for free. I can Rapid cancel it to make it safer, all I need to do is to Instant block it crouching. Jump back C timed correctly destroy all Ignis specials you can throw and most of your get in attempts. Thrust me it is not a very bad matchup, you just need to be patient and harass Relius the iright time. BTW 2C and 5C are free punish everytime I block your 236C and you don't RC, fireball should only be used to reset pressure and force you to do some panic moves. You will understand when you will fight a decent Kagura player though. Edited March 12, 2014 by FatalCounter
Justice7541 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Why would you be blocking Relius 236C ever? Also Kagura DP is pretty bad overall, it does a lot of damage and has a pretty decent hitbox but being a charger hurts it a lot. Can't do it after an overhead, can't cancel into itself on clash, can't be done on reaction to superflash, can't microdash DP to poke out of pressure, etc. It's better than not having a DP at all but it's no ID.
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Kagura's dp is one of the fastest in the game, it has tons of active frames, huge hitbox, you need to barrier block it in the air, you cant mess up his inputs with crossover or unders and it's completely safe on block when blocked in the air. I won't call his dp bad and i think it's overall one of the best dp's in the game
-Seo Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Nu, Mu and Izayoi changes are up. http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/tyousei5.html
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 What? They somewhat buffed Nu's and Mu's backdashes ?! It's 3 frames less, eventhough the distance has been lowered as well
crimsonstardust Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Based on some crappy use of Google translate, I think just overall Mu's backdash is 2 frames shorter and doesn't dash back as far, either the google translate didn't pick up on Nu's backdash or I missed something cause I don't see anything for her, Izayoi's backdash got buffed though, I think that was to compensate for the fact that GA back dash has no invincibility.
Adsfzxczxc Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) There's no invul change, and doesn't it only apply to Mu? Edited March 12, 2014 by Adsfzxczxc
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Oops Nu's backdash was unchanged, i was looking too much at the Mu changes.
SoWL Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Nu: Negative Penalty Resistance - lowered from 8 to 4. Counter-Assault - hitbox is improved (now hits targets like crouching Taokaka). Spike Chaser, Crescent Saber - Dia and Luna versions are now considered to be separate moves. OD Calamity Sword - the last hit is now untechable. Sword of Destruction - is now a regular hit. Mu: Backdash - duration reduced from 25 to 22 frames. Traveling distance slightly decreased. Negative Penalty Resistance - reduced from 8 to 4. Counter-Assault - hitbox is improved (now hits targets like crouching Taokaka). j.2C - Mu's hurtbox is larger. Sword of Decimation - the Lv.3 version's recovery is now 22 frames (rather than 26). Sword of Rebirth - the speed after jumping over the opponent is decreased, making it easier to hit with. Origins - the float's height is decreased, the untech time is decreased to 19 frames (rather than 28). Rather than starting from the move's start-up, the super-armor now activates from 8th frame (on ground) and from 7th frame (in midair) - and before that, the move is now completely invulnerable. Sword of the Godslayer - hitbox is improved. Izayoi: Backdash - duration increased from 20 to 22 frames. Now invulnerable on frames 1 to 7 (rather than 1 to 5). GA Backdash - minimal duration increased from 18 to 22 frames. Now invulnerable on frames 1 to 7 (rather than 1 to 5). Traveling distance increased. GA Airdash - can now be performed up to two times. GA Dash - can now glide after the airdash. Now accelerates with both ground and midair versions. The trajectory can be changed by pressing Up or Down. GA Air Backdash - changed the same way as the ground version (no invulnerability). Hitstun - now turns around properly when hit from behind. 5B - the hurtbox at the tip of the move is reduced. The hitbox is increased. GA 5C - the knockback is decreased. 6A - the guard point now activates from 4th frame. 6B - the invincibility now activates from 4th frame. The feint now no longer activates if you release the button at any time. 3C - now floats higher. P2 reduced to 79% (rather than 89%). GA 3C - can now be only canceled on hit. GA j.C - now active for 5 frames (rather than 3). Crush Trigger - can now be barrier-blocked on max charge. D Sonic Saber - now costs 2 stocks of Zero Weave gauge. Damage of the smaller swords reduced to 150 (rather than 200). Ground D Sonic Saber - start-up reduced to 20 frames (rather than 26). Duration increased to 51 frame (rather than 43). Now +19 on block (rather than +28). Can now be followed up with an aerial D Mirage Thruster. Midair D Sonic Saber - Start-up reduced to 22 frames (rather than 23). Duration reduced to 41 frame (rather than 42). Low Crusade Seraphim - P2 reduced to 79% (rather than 89%). D Mirage Thruster - now costs 1 stock of Zero Weave gauge. Slaver Trans-Am - the duration is doubled. Edited March 13, 2014 by SoWL
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think that the sword decimation changes is about not the start up or charge time but rather the recovery, because right now the maxed charged sword of decimation has more recovery than the uncharged lvl 1 and lvl 2 charged versions
SoWL Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think that the sword decimation changes is about not the start up or charge time but rather the recovery, because right now the maxed charged sword of decimation has more recovery than the uncharged lvl 1 and lvl 2 charged versions Huh, you're right, fixed that.
FatalCounter Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Why would you be blocking Relius 236C ever? Also Kagura DP is pretty bad overall, it does a lot of damage and has a pretty decent hitbox but being a charger hurts it a lot. Can't do it after an overhead, can't cancel into itself on clash, can't be done on reaction to superflash, can't microdash DP to poke out of pressure, etc. It's better than not having a DP at all but it's no ID. You are wrong on most of these affirmations. You can cancel into itself on clash by just doing maintaining down and doing up + C as soon as you see a clash and it is prett easy to do actually. You can react to superflash and I did it many times vs Hazama and Kagura Shockwave super. It is really easy to dash even fullscreen and DP, did you know that? If you do 66 then maintain it to 3 direction you will continue to dash and if you input up with C the DP will comes out. It is very useful when you release a fireball and someone try to jump over it. You should learn it. Edited March 12, 2014 by FatalCounter
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Thank God they changed Mu's backdash. They didn't mention the distance of the lowered backdash, it only says "slightly lowered the distance" and to compensate that it last 3 frames less. I will just wait and see how much it will affect Mu's defence
Airk Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Thank God they changed Mu's backdash. It doesn't sound like much of a nerf - reducing the overall duration is a BUFF because it makes it 'recover' faster. Shorter distance...well, depends on how much shorter, but unless it's a LOT this is likely to be a net buff. What does: Sword of Destruction - is now a regular hit. Mean?
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Sword of Destruction - is now a regular hit. You can combo into Nu's astral now, because it used to be a command throw
SoWL Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Added Izayoi's changes: Izayoi: Backdash - duration increased from 20 to 22 frames. Now invulnerable on frames 1 to 7 (rather than 1 to 5). GA Backdash - minimal duration increased from 18 to 22 frames. Now invulnerable on frames 1 to 7 (rather than 1 to 5). Traveling distance increased. GA Airdash - can now be performed up to two times. GA Dash - can now glide after the airdash. Now accelerates with both ground and midair versions. The trajectory can be changed by pressing Up or Down. GA Air Backdash - changed the same way as the ground version (no invulnerability). Hitstun - now turns around properly when hit from behind. 5B - the hurtbox at the tip of the move is reduced. The hitbox is increased. GA 5C - the knockback is decreased. 6A - the guard point now activates from 4th frame. 6B - the invincibility now activates from 4th frame. The feint now no longer activates if you release the button at any time. 3C - now floats higher. P2 reduced to 79% (rather than 89%). GA 3C - can now be only canceled on hit. GA j.C - now active for 5 frames (rather than 3). Crush Trigger - can now be barrier-blocked on max charge. D Sonic Saber - now costs 2 stocks of Zero Weave gauge. Damage of the smaller swords reduced to 150 (rather than 200). Ground D Sonic Saber - start-up reduced to 20 frames (rather than 26). Duration increased to 51 frame (rather than 43). Now +19 on block (rather than +28). Can now be followed up with an aerial D Mirage Thruster. Midair D Sonic Saber - Start-up reduced to 22 frames (rather than 23). Duration reduced to 41 frame (rather than 42). Low Crusade Seraphim - P2 reduced to 79% (rather than 89%). D Mirage Thruster - now costs 1 stock of Zero Weave gauge. Slaver Trans-Am - the duration is doubled. Edited March 12, 2014 by SoWL
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 You are wrong on most of these affirmations. You can cancel into itself on clash by just doing maintaining down and doing up + C as soon as you see a clash and it is prett easy to do actually. Well you can't clash Kagura's dp with another dp if you have become airborn. So he probably meant that
FatalCounter Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Well you can't clash Kagura's dp with another dp if you have become airborn. So he probably meant that If you pretty high you can't but if close to the ground and since clash does like a Rapid Cancel you should be able to land and do another DP as soon as possible. I actually do it so....
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 If you pretty high you can't but if close to the ground and since clash does like a Rapid Cancel you should be able to land and do another DP as soon as possible. I actually do it so.... Well i use Mu with her fraud dp with 21f guard point and i haven't lost to kagura's dp when i was actively clashing with it
FatalCounter Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Well i use Mu with her fraud dp with 21f guard point and i haven't lost to kagura's dp when i was actively clashing with it Lol, too funny. Just want to remind that Mu DP wins vs any DP in the game when it clashes. I know that because I play as her, sir! Edited March 12, 2014 by FatalCounter
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Lol, too funny. Just want to remind that Mu DP wins vs any DP in the game when it clashes. I know that I play as her, sir! Well that's why i wasn't sure if you can do Kagura's dp while being airborn, because i haven't lost an active dp clashing war
Airk Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Well you can't clash Kagura's dp with another dp if you have become airborn. So he probably meant that Isn't that more "Kagura doesn't have an air version of his DP" than "Kagura's DP is a charge motion"? Izayoi changes are all over the place. Good to see them buffing Trans-am, but some of those other changes make me go "huh?"
bakahyl Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Isn't that more "Kagura doesn't have an air version of his DP" than "Kagura's DP is a charge motion"? I never questioned the charge motion weakness but rather the problem that he has no airversion of his dp and his dp makes him airborn. So i was not even sure he could clash with another dp (like Ragna's ID) Edited March 12, 2014 by bakahyl
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