Hellmonkey

Haha yeah its always nice playing against that level since i have to actually be creative. There are so many ways that slayer can be effective in this matchup its hard to specify exactly how baiken should approach it besides cautiously. Btw you can counter almost all that you can with sakura with a buffered ouren or mawarikomi throw as long as he isnt on top of you, i try not to use sakura much since i think its prorate and no knockdown without meter just isnt worth it. 6k is a pain in the ass to counter if slayer throws it seldomly, i just started blocking it normally and escaping. Overall counters are not that strong in this fight imo and its better not to rely on them at all than too much. (os counter fd jump is amazing, esp after an ib, if he doesnt get a chance to cross you up though.)

you won't be close enough after the 6K CH from any mid-range distance (which is what i was referring to, as in standing outside his 5K hitbox), if you're that close in you can just tatami FRC or even 5HS tatami FRC and get a ton more damage if you have the tension. If you're at a range you have to kabari in the first place the best tensionless you can do is usually a j.D after tetsu.

make sure you're maxing out your damage against him too, like getting the extra j.D in corner throw>tatami>sj.PSD>(earliest)S(slight delay)D>j.D off of 2k c.5s j.d you can FRC iad tatami and dustloop if you're in corner by then or iad j.SD for some extra damage too. If you have the tension blow it on your damage while you have the chance, you can always build up more meter later and your chances to use it on youzansen mixup are limited.

AKA in socal thread???

It's great after 6K because it jacks guard gauge, but it's not really needed to make 6K safe, 6K by itself is plus frames and is better used to keep pressure actually than following with 2H. I hadn't been using 2H much outside of pressure but I saw maruken using it a surprising amount and started to some myself, just use it from mid-range so anything they throw out will catch it, it has huge startup but normal recovery 2S loses to 5K if you start up around the same time, you can only beat it if you catch his startup. use 2H, kabari, 6K if he's using 5K a lot. (6K will counterhit it everytime if you start up beforehand, if you startup around the same time it will clash or trade) (note: from 6K counterhit use kabari, tetsuzansen FRC -> j.D FRC if you have it and bring him to the corner for loop, otherwise take your tension and knockdown from tetsuzansen->j.SD or j.D) Feel free to buffer counters at the edge of 5K range and react to blocking it with ouren for a free knockdown. The best Slayer can hope for with 2K against all of the above is a whiff, he will never hit with it at that range. The real move to worry about at this range is 2H btw, which I haven't talked about yet. It beats basically all of the above (except kabari or 2H from far enough away, you can use 2H where it will CH a 5K but not get hit by 2H), and whether he's using it or not should change whether you're playing at this range or much further away. You can beat it by jumping when he does it and j.H or iad tatami in if it's from slightly further away, it will obviously lose to throwing or 5P if you're close enough, but in general it is the reason you cannot stay close to him on the ground. Baiken 5H is actually great to CH 2H with if you think he'll throw it out. You want to sit just outside his 5K range, sometimes even further, and what you do from there really depends on how the Slayer plays. If the Slayer jumps a lot, try not to poke out too much with 2s/2h, use more iad back tatami or react to what he does with airthrow(j.P option select it), 6P (watch out for j.H if you choose to use this). If you run up and throw him, use the slight invincibility on her dash-stop to help grab him (don't FD break it when you go for a throw, but make sure you option select your throw since either HS is terrible in that range) It is also good to feign a similar attempt but FD brake it early and poke out or just block, like I mentioned earlier it's all about making the Slayer impatient and forcing him to take risks since trading hits/combos will make you die quickly. The more the Slayer turtles, the more you should try to just build meter at range. If the Slayer likes throwing out random K mappa IB punish (note: do a short run, FD brake it and throw (let go of your FD immediately and 4H like a kara) or 5P 5S j.D to punish) or throw out early tatamis to catch it. Aside from that (and DoT) there isn't much to worry about at mid-range.

only wiggling the joystick recovers from stagger, buttons only also help with dizzy I actually played a significant amount against Slayer, and the way you approach the fight will depend a lot on how the Slayer does. You have to recognize that eating almost any hit means 40%+ of your lifebar, so you have to either deal with a rushdown slayer by zoning and running away quickly and safely, or have the most cautious rushdown as possible against more turtly ones. You WILL lose trying to jump in on Slayer, so only iad tatami or iad j.s if you see him doing something that allows you to. Lots of 2H and 2S for poking, since he is fairly limited on range and both of those shut him down well. Make sure you take every knockdown you can (5s to j.d against standing is mandatory), and watch how he tries to escape pressure because if the Slayer is good with BDC jump make sure you're airthrowing him every time he does it(into dustloop when near enough to the corner.) j.D is a great poke against him, but make sure he won't get under you or it will hurt. Because of BDC jump and 2P, it will be hard to apply much pressure, but mix up with throwing (make sure you are using option select, PKS can all be good for it) and an earlier 6K to get counterhits. You HAVE to beat him out in airthrowing or the match is lost and he can walk all over you. Try to use as few counters as possible when escaping his pressure, since you will take a ridiculous amount of damage if he reads it. Keep counters buffered almost all the time and react to 6k/j.h etc with it every time. Once the player is conditioned to use 2k/2d/throw make good use of 1f jump to escape. How I start a fight depends completely on who I'm playing and how I feel at the time, but it's usually just jumping back or blocking and seeing what he does. Better Slayers abuse his ridiculous risk/reward all the time, so taking safer options and keeping him impatient is the best approach imo. Don't forget to watch for DoT when he gets 50% (especially 75%), you can die instantly to it.

I was in japan for a few weeks and got a decent amount of exp against really strong players, if anyone wants my findings for any matchups feel free to ask... I wish more people still played like japan :[

If they decide pot and baiken are cool i see a bright future for them in gg

Or make the wiser decision to wait for an update that hopefully balances and makes the game more fun

oh hey a tournament outside west coast that isn't on a finals week maybe i can make this

Barrier adds one more frame of block stun, and pushes slightly further. They still have 17 frames to run up and hit you. I'd be surprised if there is a character that can't punish it. Not that they should be FDing it in the first place.

and predicting with 3c is fucking stupid, so don't bother unless you catch patterns in their movement & when they 5b

ranga 5b is 32 frames total, pretty impressive if you can react to it in 13 frames...

NO 3c is easily punishable even without IB it is -18 frames on normal block, and ANYONE can react to blocking it. 19 frames of startup, (3 frames active), 13 frames of hitstop, 33 frames of recovery take ragna 5c for example, it has 12 frame startup. from the time you started your 3c the opponent has 56 (!!) frames to react and punish if it was blocked.

if you are too far and have to link a dash to get close enough to connect without RC. obviously if you're close enough there is no hit confirming needed. 5a hitbox is probably slightly better too, both have the same startup.

safer to try and connect with 5a instead of 6c for your first hit following 28d without RC, then hitconfirm the 5a into 6c and finish your combo

Yeah like GB said 87 holding it and 7FD will both jump in 1F, but going 1 or 4->7FD leaves you with only 1 frame of vulnerability between blocking and jumping

Using 7 and pressing it lets you go immediately from blocking to 1f jump

7 and immediately fd.

Lol so true, also if dizzy is getting a good overhead i guess sol and jam do as well? :|

give eddie a free guard cancel give baiken a summon

As great as this would be for the foreign community, I doubt there is too much interest from the scene inside Japan, which is the market ASW cares about most

If you're going to have a revised version, everyone should be getting some type of improvements. Changing those things for baiken would do more to increase her options rather than make her current options any more effective (for example changing current j.D GB- and adding old one makes her have to choose between getting knockdowns/spending tension/getting damage instead of just tension vs damage tradeoff) Baiken is already tension-dependent and doesn't have an easy time getting it. Changing ouren as mentioned would make it's risk-reward much worse (most characters already have pretty good answers to it because of it's lack of invulnerability, but it should be more easily punishable on block with no meter spent) youzansen frc is unusable right now, 6HS basically pointless in combos because of it's current GB-, 5K is practically useless She doesn't have enough ground speed to justify 40 pixel throw, it should at least be jam's range.

Baiken gets old and new j.d, new j.d functions exactly as it does now except GB- is raised to 10, old j.D has GB- of 6 (one is j.d other is j.6d) youzansen frc removes youzansen landing recovery all baku followup damage increased, CH state baku does not nerf tension gain and causes higher guard meter damage when opponent blocks 5hs has added vacuum effect recovery of suzuran reverted to pre-AC (entire move 30frames->28frames long) ground throw range increased to 43 pixels mawarikomi given throw invuln for frames 1-5 j.P startup 7->5, c.5s startup 9->7, 5k startup 8->6 GB- on 6H 15->10 Ouren has 5 added frames of recovery and CH can only be followed up by 5p, but FRC added that can be timed immediately before (airborne) or after landing sakura prorate 85->90

fixed