BBCS2 FINAL SHOWDOWN: Loketest 5, Nov. 15th Discussion

[smooshman]

-2C hit stop increase

Can someone tell me what this means?

hitstop is.... well, you know how when haku/jin does yukikaze you're character's stuck in an animation for a while? that's hitstop, though it's generally not as noticeable yukikaze

[K2]

hit stop is the amount of time that the action is held when the attack conects, you know the amount of time that both chars are freeze like for example when ragna hits the other char with inferno divider, and that it takes longer when you connect it on Counter Hit

Hit Stop =/= Recovery

yeah~ thanks

but wts does it do if it takes longer? can u discrible a situation?

like she will stay like that longer?

lets say ragna jc clash with cat chair , wt will happen?

[smooshman]

but wts does it do if it takes longer? can u discrible a situation?

it's probably more for show, the only thing I could think of where it would matter is for hit confirms and buffering a charge input ([4]6a/b/c/d, or [2]8), since you won't move like you normally would.... but I'd go with the for show explaination.

[Stomoman]

Taokaka

+ 5CH > 6C works

- 3C can only be cancelled with distortion drive (confirmation from previous loketest)

There are no heroes left in man.

[Hecatom]

yeah~ thanks

but wts does it do if it takes longer? can u discrible a situation?

like she will stay like that longer?

lets say ragna jc clash with cat chair , wt will happen?

as smooshman said it could be probably for show, of course more hitstop allows you to react better on some situations or allow new combo oportunities cuz you have more time to setup a juggle or link the next attack i dont know how to say it, basically for this all the attacks on counterhit have more hitstop

[Kuuhaku]

yeah~ thanks

but wts does it do if it takes longer? can u discrible a situation?

like she will stay like that longer?

lets say ragna jc clash with cat chair , wt will happen?

Uh... hit stop just means it should be easier to combo with.

[CakeWasBannedd]

tao for bottom tier yeeeeeees <3

[Stomoman]

Too early to say that, although it is true that I can't think of any good "buff" she has received to compensate for all these nerfs. Having CH 5C > 6C back it's cool but it's hardly going to make a difference unless performed at the corner.

You've alredy heard it, but just a reminder.

[CakeWasBannedd]

Too early to say that, although it is true that I can't think of any good "buff" she has received to compensate for all these nerfs. Having CH 5C > 6C back it's cool but it's hardly going to make a difference unless performed at the corner.

You've alredy heard it, but just a reminder.

no, bottom tier <3

[eirei]

Lambda

- 4B's first hit has enormous hit stop. If the first hit connects, the second hit will have more than enough time to connect afterward.

Au contraire, it means that due to the increased hitstop you have more time to stand up and block the second hit.

[Stomoman]

no, bottom tier <3

I'll still play her. :3

[Kuuhaku]

Au contraire, it means that due to the increased hitstop you have more time to stand up and block the second hit.

What?

[Spirit Juice]

What?

Hitstop is when the game "stops moving" when moves are connecting or being blocked. For example, if a move has 20 frames of hit stop, the game essentially stops moving for 20 frames (namely the sprites, but you can still input commands). If a move has 0 frames of hit stop, it'll seem to be over quicker than other moves.

Further example: if Lambda's 4B had 20 frames of hit stop on the first hit, you essentially have 20 more frames to react and block the second hit. If it had 0 frames of hit stop, it would be more difficult to block the second hit.

[eirei]

I will still get hit by it.

[Stafy]

A good example is also blocking Bang's Daifunka, since the game "stops" when you block it, but you can do things after it runs out. Which for Tager means a 720/360, and for others a punish/FC.

[Sophisticat]

I don't get all this gripping about Haku.

Counters aren't too hard to use (especially not j.D. Goddamn, but I love that move), they simply have really skewed risk/reward ratios because of the high recovery. Whiff a 2c and you're in for 30f+ of recovery at least, which is an eternity to get CH'd. Reaction j.D is quite strong, though, which is why I've advocated in the past that it should be nerfed. The other counters are not threats in terms of damage, but they do offer better positioning.

Overall, I'd say that his counters are being overestimated because people don't know how to bait them and get countered since they're playing predictably. Tager is excused from this since he's just slow in general (easiest to j.D in the game, baby!).

Also, why wtf? at 4.4k for j.2c -> 5c -> renka -> etc.? That's low-end damage for a 4-star combo... you should be getting 5-6k+. But of course, no one uses 5c x2 - 5/2c links.

[Hecatom]

Hitstop is when the game "stops moving" when moves are connecting or being blocked. For example, if a move has 20 frames of hit stop, the game essentially stops moving for 20 frames (namely the sprites, but you can still input commands). If a move has 0 frames of hit stop, it'll seem to be over quicker than other moves.

Further example: if Lambda's 4B had 20 frames of hit stop on the first hit, you essentially have 20 more frames to react and block the second hit. If it had 0 frames of hit stop, it would be more difficult to block the second hit.

well that of course would depend also of the hitstun and the recovery of the move, you can always have a huge hitstop like the drive attacks of makoto and be able to combo, so saying that more hitstop you would have more time to react is incorrect since it would depend if the move conected and of the hitstun + recovery of the move, not the hitstop perse

A good example is also blocking Bang's Daifunka, since the game "stops" when you block it, but you can do things after it runs out. Which for Tager means a 720/360, and for others a punish/FC.

true but thats more because the awful recovery time of Dainfuka

[eirei]

Dude.

4B hits. Hitstop ensues. The first hit of 4B is blocked at this time. Nothing happens for 20f (let's use that example). Hence, you have 20f to move your lazy ass to a standing position, in addition to whatever gap there is between the 2 hits.

Now then:

Bonus proration has been removed from almost all moves that had it. So, nothing will have more than 100% proration now.

Regarding Ragna's Madao, it's nerfed because you're no longer +f after it. Thus making it pretty useless. Hey now, we can't have actual oki in BB, can we?

Edited November 16, 2010 by eirei

[Cirno]

Au contraire, it means that due to the increased hitstop you have more time to stand up and block the second hit.

Sorry, but I'm basically retarded. That would make this a nerf, right? (´∀`)

And then I read the post above me, and the other ones too. (´∀`

[Hecatom]

Dude.

4B hits. Hitstop ensues. The first hit of 4B is blocked at this time. Nothing happens for 20f (let's use that example). Hence, you have 20f to move your lazy ass to a standing position, in addition to whatever gap there is between the 2 hits.

i know, but im saying that 20f of hitstop doesnt mean you have 20f to do anything, if the move has less recovery time than the amount of blockstun it does, lets just say that it has 20f of hitstop and it has 2f of frame advantage on block, now do you get what im saying?

Edited November 16, 2010 by Hecatom

[zreb]

If Lambda's 4B had no hitstop on the first hit, then the 2nd hit--the actual overhead--would be a 17 frame overhead.

If it has the theoretical 20 frames of hitstop on the first hit, it is then a 37 frame overhead, effectively.

All anyone is saying is that 37 frames is PLENTY of time to react to the fact that it's an overhead vs. 17. Obviously it's not actually 20 frames, but it's enough in CS right now that it is not difficult to react to.

If they made the hitstop bigger, it's a nerf. End. Hit stop has no bearing on whether or not you get to "do anything" and I have no clue where that idea even came up, but it's complete nonsense.

[Spirit Juice]

Yeah not sure why you think I'm talking about punishing moves in regard to hitstop.

[Andarel]

So with 4B being significantly easier to punish (and still doesn't combo on standing non-ch, right?), and the j214D nerfs...how does she overhead again?

[KayEff]

Lambda's supposed to use overheads?

[severin]

She doesn't need overheads.