Amadeus46Art Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 I'm torn on this - on the one hand, it makes no bloody sense that hitting someone in the sword should be able to hurt them (and even LESS sense that hitting someone in their Magic Glowing Wing would hurt them.). But on the other hand, it means that characters with weapons suddenly get a massive advantage because a lot of their attacks no longer extend their hurtboxes. This means characters like Bang and Makoto (who technically has weapons, but not really.) will be at a fairly big disadvantage in footsies against characters with weapon attacks. On the third hand, it is TOTALLY IDIOTIC the way it is now where SOME weapon attacks extend hitboxes, and others don't (Looking at you, Hakumen!). Just pointing out that this wouldn't be as big of a deal as you might think it is. I hate to bring up Guilty Gear just after we explained how we're trying to avoid that, but it's where I have my experience. Jam v. Ky is simple enough, where Ky has a long weapon and Jam is obviously a fist-to-fist fighter. Ky's f.S attack doesn't actually extend his hurtbox that much, since the sword has not hurtbox, but it is a very long poke that would be good for keeping Jam out...if Jam didn't have tools that completely shut down this move. Her 236S command dash can rush in under it, and her 6P will actually be invincible through the attack, letting Jam run right in with no fear. Attacks such as Sol's 2S can still shut down her ground game because they use the weapon in such a way that she doesn't have many tools to get past it and into her range, but that's just it. Characters with short ranged normals against characters with long pokes that don't extend their hurtbox can still do well, provided they have the proper tools to get in, and once they're there, stay in.
YukiBlue Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 - Nerf Stupid air grab hitboxes - Auto pass in lobbies - Palette changer - Change BGM in online lobbies Bang: Make 2B force standing :bad::bad::bad::bad::bad::bad:
pktazn Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Other Tsubaki players have pretty much said what I would have but there are two things from her unlimited form that I liked but will obviously have to be modified: Her new air distortion. It would be a great ender to her air combos instead of just j.214x. The action charge set-up where if you push D in the middle of her special she will stop and gain a charge. It doesn't have to be a full charge, maybe like a third or half depending on the version used to cancel? Or a new super where I sacrifice heat to gain charges quickly that works too. Edited May 14, 2012 by pktazn
Rhiya Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Main thing I want is netcode that isn't delay-based. Give us that rollcaster/ggpo ripoff, so I can play with 1 frame delay to anyone on the EC! It'd be sex. The other thing -- and I feel like this is really questionable, but I want it done -- I want IB reduced to -2, but no move frame advantages changed (i.e., I don't want the +3 moves changed to +2, like the +5 moves were changed to +3 after the IB nerf). IB is too good right now. It shuts down a lot of plus-frame moves for no reason, and there aren't enough practical moves that're still plus even after being IB'd. Alternatively, you could adjust everyone's frame advantages, but I'd rather see the IB nerf.
Airk Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Just pointing out that this wouldn't be as big of a deal as you might think it is. I hate to bring up Guilty Gear just after we explained how we're trying to avoid that, but it's where I have my experience. Jam v. Ky is simple enough, where Ky has a long weapon and Jam is obviously a fist-to-fist fighter. Ky's f.S attack doesn't actually extend his hurtbox that much, since the sword has not hurtbox, but it is a very long poke that would be good for keeping Jam out...if Jam didn't have tools that completely shut down this move. Her 236S command dash can rush in under it, and her 6P will actually be invincible through the attack, letting Jam run right in with no fear. Attacks such as Sol's 2S can still shut down her ground game because they use the weapon in such a way that she doesn't have many tools to get past it and into her range, but that's just it. Characters with short ranged normals against characters with long pokes that don't extend their hurtbox can still do well, provided they have the proper tools to get in, and once they're there, stay in. Sure, but this all comes down to "they'd have to do a poo-ton of rebalancing to accomodate this change", because right now, it mostly all works, and has been designed with the way it works now. Non-weapon fighters would therefore be at a huge disadadvantage without significant changes. Not saying it CAN'T work, but just saying "Hey, it's okay in Guilty Gear" doesn't necessarily mean it would work here. At least, not without a ton of changes.
zeth07 Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Hell yes. So tired of "Hey, you were somewhere near the corner when I hit you with Inferno Divider! 3K for j00!" Not so sure about this. Air throws serve an important purpose in this game and I feel like reducing the hitboxes too much might impair that. I'm torn on this - on the one hand, it makes no bloody sense that hitting someone in the sword should be able to hurt them (and even LESS sense that hitting someone in their Magic Glowing Wing would hurt them.). But on the other hand, it means that characters with weapons suddenly get a massive advantage because a lot of their attacks no longer extend their hurtboxes. This means characters like Bang and Makoto (who technically has weapons, but not really.) will be at a fairly big disadvantage in footsies against characters with weapon attacks. On the third hand, it is TOTALLY IDIOTIC the way it is now where SOME weapon attacks extend hitboxes, and others don't (Looking at you, Hakumen!). @Zeth07: I don't really agree that there are characters who are "fundamentally good" and characters who are not. Any of these characters can be made viable by any of a number of methods, and many of them have unique ways of controlling space (Bang, for example, may have limited nails, but he's got all the extra air action uses he wants. It's not as if he's defined by nails.) and similarly, Relius might need a little bit of tampering with how much 'wife meter' he has and uses, but overall the design is fine. Similarly, if you look at Tsubaki in CS2 when her D moves were GOOD (And that's not just in proration/damage, either but also frame advantage and such) then she was a solid and unique character who controlled space in a way no one else in the cast does/did (Which of course resulted in some people bitching, which is usually a good sign that a BB character is doing okay. :P ). Similarly, as you say, it's quite possible to **** up an "inherently good" character ala CS1 Rachel. Plus, I have no idea how you are making this division, since a lot of people have been whining at me lately that Jin "doesn't have a purpose" in extend. x.x After you've been thrown while BEHIND someone numerous times, you might reconsider. That should not happen, and it does for whatever hitbox reasons. As for the other stuff, I'm looking at it from a much broader scope of the game when comparing the characters which is kinda my point. I see the characters by their design and what tools they have, not so much as just what damage numbers come from them. Yes they can nerf a character into oblivion even if they are strong by design but that isn't the point. It's "easy" to just look at frames/proration/damage and say man that's good stuff, but I'm talking about actual functions of the characters and moves themselves within the game and how they control space or neutral or pressure or oki. Bang is TOTALLY defined by his nails, which is why one of the first things a new Bang player learns is to not blow through your nails so fast. You can get by without trying to use his drive to guard point things, you can get by without even using FRKZ, but you are severely limited without nails as they really are the basis of his gameplay. The bumper mix-ups for example are limited due to the game's own mechanics with the tech roll system. If the game had hard knockdowns and no tech rolling, the bumper mix-ups would be amazing, but within the game as is their purpose is entirely situational. The nails are that limiting factor to where if Bang wants to be effective at all he has to use them and manage them, while other characters as I mentioned just do whatever the hell they want most of the time and they can control the game. Maybe make D Nails the only ones that go by the nail counter, and just make the symbol show the D Nail, but even that doesn't seem like the right "fix" to me. It would open up spamming poison nails or explosion nails more but they could adjust that somehow as well. I'd also like to see the poison from the poison nail take health away faster, and either stay with the same amount or just reduce it if it means the poison ticking faster would be more effective. The other change I would make is make the explosion nail better, either through an increased explosion hitbox and/or letting the explosion happen as long as Bang threw the nail. Meaning even if he gets hit the explosion will still happen, as I've seen a few times I've thrown an explosion nail and nothing happened either the explosion didn't happen or the opponent just ignored it entirely. It would also be nice if Steel Rain didn't take away your nails and just lasted a set amount of time, maybe the middle ground of length. You're already using up 50 Heat to use the Distortion, I don't see why the nails have to get taken away as well, again this is another imposed limit for no particularly good reason. Again I look at Rachel using Tempest Dahlia by comparison and it just doesn't make sense to me.
D4rkWolF11 Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 General: -Brand New characters -Also add Jubei, kokonoe, Saya -More Palettes, Bring back CT palettes, Pallette editor HELL YES -Hell yes Rematch option -Hell yes Auto pass ( dont want to have to buy a turbo just to pass in a open lobby if im hosting) -Allow for spectator slots to not remove a player slot Ex: have 6 active players, but you can also have say 6 spectators too at the same time -New menu, new character select -I think a jubei announcer would be interesting (English) -Refine dat Training mode(all mentioned above) Gameplay: -Jin Air getsumei (selfish) -Noel 4D ... *Aggrees with Moy* -On the front of clothes hair etc... not being included in hitboxes.... iiiiii dont know about that one while it doesnt make sense realistically, i think those hitbox / hitbox extensions are important to the game, and i agree that short reach characters like Makoto would indeed be at a disadvantage in footsies. -Jin Astral possibilities, but thats just me being selfish again Also..... Completely disagree that gold burst combo starters shouldnt be able to kill. Its part of the gameplay mechanics and why shouldnt you be able to kill off a gold burst.. If you gold burst then that means you lose a green burst for a potentially dangerous situation later.(if you gold burst before last round) Also best case scenario: your opponent gold bursts and you block it, They lose a burst icon and you have lost nothing except maybe having to block since the burster has advantage after Its strat!
Delrian Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 I still think gold bursts being positive is kinda dumb.
toanenadiz Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 The other thing -- and I feel like this is really questionable, but I want it done -- I want IB reduced to -2, but no move frame advantages changed (i.e., I don't want the +3 moves changed to +2, like the +5 moves were changed to +3 after the IB nerf). IB is too good right now. It shuts down a lot of plus-frame moves for no reason, and there aren't enough practical moves that're still plus even after being IB'd. Alternatively, you could adjust everyone's frame advantages, but I'd rather see the IB nerf. What moves does it shut down for no reason?
Rhiya Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 What moves does it shut down for no reason? Basically, any move that's +1/+2/+3 and easy to IB. (Ragna 2C, for example) I also just like strong pressure, and IB nerf makes pressure stronger.
Zeromus_X Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Also..... Completely disagree that gold burst combo starters shouldnt be able to kill. Its part of the gameplay mechanics and why shouldnt you be able to kill off a gold burst.. If you gold burst then that means you lose a green burst for a potentially dangerous situation later.(if you gold burst before last round) Also best case scenario: your opponent gold bursts and you block it, They lose a burst icon and you have lost nothing except maybe having to block since the burster has advantage after I know I'm just a bit biased towards Gold Bursts, but I have to agree that GBs should keep their starting proration. Otherwise there isn't enough of a reward to using them other than a "win-more" pressure or combo extender. They can be baited and severely punished by making them whiff and aren't always completely advantageous on block depending on IB/distance. And if you actually meaty correctly, you'll get the opponent to Green Burst anyway. They're also almost useless against most chars with proper oki setups like Rachel. Keeping your primers and getting a full combo is the reward for actually getting to use your Gold Burst and even then you still used up 1 of your 2 Bursts. Every char gets like 4-5k off a Gold Burst, so I think it's fair (unless you're well, Tsubaki...). Guard Primers: I would like to see the Guard Primer system changed too; it's unique and all but really awkward for reasons already stated. I'm not sure if I'd like to see a regular Guard Bar system with characters like Litchi or Rachel though (and DEFINITELY not Guard Libra again). IB: I think IB is fine the way it is now. Pressure is strong enough for most chars (whether they get a reward for it is a different matter) but you still have to use your head and be honest to keep momentum. I wouldn't want to see Ragnas or Litchis just do whatever they feel like after I IB their 2C or 6D(2) for example. -Just tone down the individual damage and P1 of some of her moves like 5B (100 P1 lolwtf) and jC. She should get rewarded for having a good neutral game but not THAT much. Other than that I think she's fine and I don't want them to change her too much. She has solid, fundamental options to rely on (what she was missing in CS1) and has enough fun tricks and gimmicks to be creative with (CS2/EX). I can easily see them going overboard and like, kill her damage, increase all the hurtboxes on her normals, and then slow down her steins, turning her into a boring, garbage time-out character like CS1 Rachel or something. I still think she has a lot of stuff to discover, but because of her derpy damage there isn't too much incentive to get creative with her in this version despite her new tools. Also I still want a Soul Satellite distortion to spawn four steins that circle around her Gradius-style but that might be easily broken lol. -I would like to see the Order-Sol action charge from her Unlimited version. Even getting like .25 of a stock after a combo would be great and really let her chase the advantage after a combo without giving up momentum to charge. -5B should be at least neutral on block Other than that they either need to buff her damage or buff her ability to get stocks at neutral. I thought CS2-Baki was fine except for autopilot 236C/D attacks so they should look more towards that design for Tsubaki. -I actually think CSEX is Noel's most balanced version but I still don't like her gameplay design. I would like more of an emphasis on her being a pixie/rushdown character though instead of "high-risk, high-reward" (aka "I guessed your meaty attack and got 4k"). More frame traps and gatlings and less emphasis on drives/recklessness. If they do decide to do away with the "lolinvul" properties of drives they'd have to give her something else to make up for it though. Maybe make Chain Revolver moves faster/safer on block and more legit for pressure, and give her back special cancels to her drives. It's much better than CS2, but Noel players still get rewarded more for being retarded than trying to play intelligently. Edited May 14, 2012 by Zeromus_X
Moy_X7 Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Forgot my character specific wishlist lol Jin: + Make j.B's start-up into 8-9 frames or make it so that the forward and lower hit-boxes come out faster. If you don't know, j.B has three different parts and hit-boxes during this move: above, forward, and below + above. It takes way too damn long for the forward and lower hit-boxes to active in this game and even then, the hurt box on the 2nd and 3rd parts of the move are bigger than the fucking hit-box lmao. I mean, just look at this shit lol: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/jin/j.B.html So yeah, make j.B useful again, at least to CS-CSII's standards and fix the hurt-box. j.2C suffers from the same stupid hurt-box and hit-box shit so, they should try and fix it: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/jin/j.2C.html Why the fuck is there a hurt-box where the blade is at instead of a hit-box? Why isn't there a hit-box at all where the blade seems to reach below him? Jeeesus. http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/jin/2A.html and http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/jin/6A.html Invisible scabbard and grip, thank you based Arcsys. + Make 6A -2 on block as opposed to -4 and have it so that we can get more than one fucking + frame on hit (it used to be +4 on hit on CSII). Have it so that we can cancel to the EX specials on hit, in the same way we were able to special cancel on hit back then. I'm being reasonable by having it so that we can only cancel into the EX specials though :/ + Have it so that 2D gets +5 on block again but remove its Primer Breaking property and give it to 6D. + Decrease the start-up on 6D by 5-10 frames or increase the frame advantage to something like +18. The hit-box and start-up on that thing is pitiful. + Increase the freeze count caused by 5D so that we can hit-confirm into DC > 5C on regular hit or DC > 6C on CH. If they can't do that then at least reduce the frame disadvantage to -7. -14 is just way too fucking much for a poke that leads to nothing without meter and has a shitload of recovery on whiff. + Decrease the start-up on 236D by at least 7 frames. That thing has too much start-up for a move that requires meter and most people can jump, DP, or jab out of it on reaction. It loses it's freeze properties on a trade and brings us both back to neutral (best case scenario) or I lose 25 Heat, the momentum, and some health in the process. In a similar note, decrease the landing recovery on j.236D to 11 frames so that it has the same landing recovery as the other Ice Blades. I mean, seriously, I pay 25 Heat and have to worry about whiffing or having the opponent read my anti-air bait and lose 3K and my Heat. In that case I'm better off using regular Ice Blades. + Decrease the start-up on j.D and increase the freeze count but increase the landing recovery. I wanna have an actual high risk, high reward cross-up not some easy to react to and punish shit. - Decrease Hirensou's and j.A's P1 to 80. Like I said, no reversal should be able to net that much damage and that air jab into 2.4-3.2 is a bit too much lol. Plat: - MAKE THE ITEM EQUIP ANIMATION FASTER. Seriously, 29 Frames to get an item is way too damn long. 22 Frames would still be too long but at least it would be slightly more reasonable. - Decrease j.C's start-up by a frame or two. - Give her a normal that hits above her in the air. - Have it so that either 6B or 6C break a primer. - Go back to CSII's Swallow Moon's cancel speed. - Decrease 6A's start-up by a frame or two or have it so that the I-frames kick in at frame 5 or 6. Decrease the recovery. - Give her a horizontal Mystique Momo, have the command look something like 214D~C. - Decrease the start-up on Mystique Momo, the Bombs, and the Missiles to 17 frames. - Decrease the start-up on her command grab, 24 frames + the amount of frames that it takes to get to the opponent is too long. - Increase the damage on CDT as well as its P1 to 90. - Increase 6B's P1 to 80.
toanenadiz Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Basically, any move that's +1/+2/+3 and easy to IB. (Ragna 2C, for example) I also just like strong pressure, and IB nerf makes pressure stronger. I don't think there is an issue with pressure right now. You don't really want easy mode ways to ensure that you are plus on block. You just need to make the opponent hesitate about pressing buttons after IBing them by using your gatlings (or baiting DPs).
Amadeus46Art Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 + Have it so that 2D gets +5 on block again but remove its Primer Breaking property and give it to 6D. + Decrease the start-up on 6D by 5-10 frames or increase the frame advantage to something like +18. The hit-box and start-up on that thing is pitiful. Mind going into this at all? I don't know Jin period but that just seems like asking a lot for one move, Primer Breaking property and a large + on block, in addition to faster startup. I'm just confused is all.
Airk Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Mind going into this at all? I don't know Jin period but that just seems like asking a lot for one move, Primer Breaking property and a large + on block, in addition to faster startup. I'm just confused is all. Well, right now it's HELLA slow (35 frames startup.). But I think it's completely absurd to give it more than one of three buffs mentioned above. Primer breaking + faster or faster + more frame advantage is just absurd. - MAKE THE ITEM EQUIP ANIMATION FASTER. Seriously, 29 Frames to get an item is way too damn long. 22 Frames would still be too long but at least it would be slightly more reasonable. Please bear in mind that right now the MINIMUM amount of time Tsubaki can spend charging is 18 frames. That's on a button tap. And gets her basically nothing. 29 frames doesn't really sound unreasonable for item equip in light of that.
Moy_X7 Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Mind going into this at all? I don't know Jin period but that just seems like asking a lot for one move, Primer Breaking property and a large + on block, in addition to faster startup. I'm just confused is all. I'm not asking for a huge start-up buff, just a couple frames is all. I did say have that OR increase the frame advantage that you get on block. The Primer Breaking property might just me being greedy but whiffing 2D because the opponent got smart and did dash forward + barrier break to read it when you were trying to break that last primer will cost you dearly. I'd much rather have 6D break primers than 2D, because with 2D not only do you have to be at the right distance but you also have to pray that they don't read it and dash forward. If they're mashing on your 6D then you just frame trap them next time. Please bear in mind that right now the MINIMUM amount of time Tsubaki can spend charging is 18 frames. That's on a button tap. And gets her basically nothing. 29 frames doesn't really sound unreasonable for item equip in light of that. I guess you should add a faster Drive charge speed along with my faster Item Equip speed to the wishlist XD Edited May 14, 2012 by Moy_X7
Urichinan Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 I'll throw mine up: (NOTE: These are only buffs, obviously I'd like for there to be nerfs too, but there's no point in listing them. So don't jump down my throat.) -Allow for combos after Tsubame, like in CT. -Return the staff recall properties on 3C[m]. -Give j.C[e] knockdown properties on air hit. -Return CS1's 4D. (Special cancelable, causes a stagger) -Give 2C head invincibility. -Make the recovery on staff recalls faster. -Lower the recovery on j.D[m] so it can be used in combos. (Like j.B[m] > j.D > Falling j.B > 6C(1) > etc.) -Give 6A[m] it's ground bounce back. -Make Tsubame RCable
Mucky Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Tager: 6A: This move lost almost all of its use as a mixup tool when its jump cancel was taken away in CS2. Extend has made it a better combo tool, and the new barrier mechanic means that charged 6A has become useful for dragging people back in to continue pressure. But what really takes the teeth out of this move is the ability for people to mash out DPs/1F reversals after a blocked 6A. The only way for Tager to prevent this is with a 6A>4D. However, it can't CH people who are winding up the inputs for a reversal (because it's airtight). On top of this, 4D is designed in a way that it has the same amount of hitstun as blockstun, and it magnetizes regardless of hit or block, thus the only reward for hitting someone with a non-CH 4D is a tiny bit of damage. While 6A>4D is a good, safe blockstring to use on characters with good reversals, it's this exact property that prevents it from being a true deterrent for mashing reversals. Basically, what this means is that characters like Ragna have literally no reason to respect Tager's 6A, since 4D behaves the same way on hit or block and the rest of Tager's options are vulnerable. Give this move something that can be used to bait reversals. Jump cancel would be nice to have again, but it doesn't have to be that; it could be something like a backdash cancel. It would be riskier than a jump cancel, since someone who waits can punish the backdash, but it would still reward Tager with a punish if he reads the reversal. 5D: IMO, this move is the worst it's been since CT. -4 on normal block means this move is extremely risky to use to end blockstrings, compared to CS1/2 where it was +3 (7 frame difference!). The compensation for this change is 8 total active frames. So 5D functions better as a full/mid screen poke and also a lazy way to pull in people who try to jump away from Tager (which, IMO, was the primary use of 5D in CS1). However, -4 on block partially brings this move back to the way it was in CT, where a blocked 5D forces the Tager to use a followup which carries almost as much risk as 5D itself just so he can be at a slightly better frame (dis)advantage. Looking at Tager's other drives, a well-spaced 2D can give Tager an enormous frame advantage, and j.D is overall a safer poke yet still risky. It's pretty natural to conclude that using 5D in most situations is a bad idea, or at least a worse idea than using 2D or j.D. Also, I don't know if this was a result of the frame changes or something else, but the CH window for 5D has become EXTREMELY tight in Extend. Unless you can react to the CH with an immediate collider, there's a good chance that 5C will blue beat. This wasn't a problem in CS1/2. Again, compare this to 2D where a CH gives Tager enough time to followup with 5C, even if 2D landed on the very first frame. I guess my suggestion for this move would be to make it +0 or -1 or block, so Tager isn't completely fucked if someone happens to block it, but continuing pressure isn't necessarily safe either. The move is slow enough that there's plenty of ways for people to disrespect it when used predictably. General: CSX Tager is the best iteration of Tager so far. Though even with all of his buffs, certain matchups have barely changed at all. Lambda/Mu/Hazama/Rachel are still very difficult for Tager, Valkenhayn/Taokaka can still hit him once and time him out, and Arakune still... exists. Valkenhayn/Taokaka are the most egregious here, as I feel these matchups are difficult for the wrong reasons (they're fucking rushdown characters, not runaway). Though I wouldn't know of a way to change Valk's or Tao's mobility without destroying their gameplay, or whether Tager could be given something to help him approach these characters more easily without also making him overwhelming towards the rest of the cast.
mAc Chaos Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 Valkenhayn/Taokaka are the most egregious here, as I feel these matchups are difficult for the wrong reasons (they're fucking rushdown characters, not runaway). Though I wouldn't know of a way to change Valk's or Tao's mobility without destroying their gameplay, or whether Tager could be given something to help him approach these characters more easily without also making him overwhelming towards the rest of the cast. Maybe if they made it so the magnetism affected their aerial movement, so you could AC them in, instead of letting them ignore it like they do now.
Moy_X7 Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Tager stuff Can't you special cancel 6A into Voltec Charge to bait DPs or would the Guard Point kick in too late? If you can then you might as well, sure you run the risk of getting your bait baited but so do people who use DPs in this scenario. I don't believe that 5D being -4 is that bad, it's not punishable unless they IB and even then I hardly doubt they'll have the time to dash in and punish it if you used 5D at max range. Besides you're playing a character that can guess right and fuck somebody up. If you feel they're going to dash in and try to start pressure/punish then you could always backdash > Buster lol. You know what's bad? Jin's 5D being -14 on block. Yup, 10 frames more punishable than your 5D lol.
Rhiya Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I don't think there is an issue with pressure right now. You don't really want easy mode ways to ensure that you are plus on block. You just need to make the opponent hesitate about pressing buttons after IBing them by using your gatlings (or baiting DPs). The thing is, some moves /need/ to be plus no matter what. Dead Spike is hard to IB, sure, but 32 frames of startup to be neutral on block when someone does IB it? That's just dumb. The point of a move like Dead Spike is that you can guess the reset and get out, not IB and be able to mash buttons because they probably need to dash in.
Dr.Patient Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) Make Bang yell more, for example 5C he screams "Overhead!!" then to make up for that, give him 64 nails..... No but really, improved story mode, as well as CT announcers, and something similar to the old japanese CT voice acting, I miss when Bang sounded a bit like Bruce Lee. Edited May 15, 2012 by Dr.Patient
Moy_X7 Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Make Bang yell more, for example 5C he screams "Overhead!!" Maybe I'll be able to block it if he does that XD
Mucky Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Can't you special cancel 6A into Voltec Charge to bait DPs or would the Guard Point kick in too late? If you can then you might as well, sure you run the risk of getting your bait baited but so do people who use DPs in this scenario. Two problems with VTC: 1) DPs can be RC'd if they hit a guardpoint. 2) The recovery is looooooong. It works for moves like inferno divider, but most moves don't give you 9 years to punish. By the time VTC is finished, so is whatever move the other guy threw out. There's VTC > hammer, but I can't say I've used that enough to know when and where it works.
Recommended Posts