Myoro Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Relius changes! Relius dash speed faster? Pincer system added (Description of what a pincer looks like.) 6B: Head invincibility added Gatling removed Doesn’t float on ground hit Startup slowed (i.e., longer startup) Slower than 5C and 2C, faster than Lauger. ~13-15f 3C: Can’t jump cancel Reduced recovery? 2C: Jump cancel possible Fatal counter removed Blowback on counterhit is the same (something about being able to follow up after jc > stuff > landing?) j.B Top part of [attack] hitbox removed Generally, there is no hitbox near the shoulder Lower attack level 2D Pulls the opponent towards the ground on air hit Not a hard knockdown (for above situation?) SMP added? 4D OD version removed Val Lanto Starts up faster Since it connects when summoned after 5B, startup is ~17f? Attack level increase? Probably at least even on block (Hard?) knockdown on hit. (Relius’s recovery increased on 214 series? Probably same [recovery length] as [Val] Tus ?) [Can] transition into pincer when blocked at close range. Val Lyra Relius recovery increased Transitions into pincer state after attack Float lowered on OD version Val Tus Distance the same as for BBCSE, “searches” from within that distance (I’m guessing that means the attacks come out when it encounters the opponent, rather than going a fixed distance first.) OD version: Also floats on ground hit. P2 changed 92 -> 94 Id Haas Decreased follow-up time Doesn’t combo into [Gad] Leis and CT OD version added OD version: Roughly the same as Lanto Uses 3000 gauge Id Naiads OD version added Ground Naiads transitions to pincer OD version: [ground] bounces akin to unlimited version, can combo after Uses 3000 gauge Req Vinum OD version added OD version Forces ground crouch 500 minimum damage Vol Tedo Increased recovery on hit? Shortened animation Duo Bios More lenient P2 (i.e. higher P2?) (Something about direction of first hit for OD version) Many thanks to Kikirin for the translated list!! Thanks to SoWL for double checking! (and sorry for not posting the changelog here earlier making you think it was still untranslated '^') You are both amazing amazing people! There remains a bit of untranslated stuff to tackle, but this is all great stuff to know!
Myoro Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Sorry, haven't really been following 2.0 news, is there a place/document with all known balance changes, other than checking each individual forum? Closest thing to that is the news thread located directly under this one. But lord knows that one's not as in depth as anything you'll find in the character forums.
Kikirin Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 A cask of Rare Relius info washed up on our deserted island shore, and we are all quite thirsty. Please someone translate this stuff, I wanna know so bad I can't even keep up conceited metaphor any longer. Myoro posted the TL for the first half of the first link a couple posts up, and the rest of the first link has recently been posted: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5957-cp-relius-clover-gameplay-discussion/#entry855570
StylisH Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Sorry, haven't really been following 2.0 news, is there a place/document with all known balance changes, other than checking each individual forum? I believe this IS the place for it, it's just scattered for now. Then again, individual character info, individual forums...
TagerTime Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Could someone please translate this list of final version CP2 changes for me please thank you! from https://www.evernote.com/shard/s519/sh/9e90e86c-53b1-45a5-b238-70754a0e411a/c10afa79703e430fa96656a4891d601c BBCP2稼動しましたので現時点で拾えた情報やコンボを簡単にまとめていきます。 間違いやコンボ安かったりしたらメンゴ 【ver1.1からの変更点】 【通常技】 ・5A：コンボ時間伸びた？ ・5B>2Bのガトリングが回数制限(5B>2B>5B>×2B) ・5D：当てて中央でも壁バン。端は張り付き。高めで当てるとBSで拾えたりコレダーでも吸える。ガードされた時は以前より離れる。 ・6A：空中ヒットで手前にスライドダウン ・6B：速くなったが中段じゃない。 ・6C：通常ヒットでもバウンド(同技消えた？) ・2C：通常ヒットで少し後ろに飛ばす。カウンターで手前に飛ばす。また以前より飛ぶようになったのでAスレ繋がらないらしい。 ・2D：進む距離が増えたがカウンターしてもコンボしづらくなった ・4D：端壁バン削除。ただしカウンターで壁バン。通常はあまり吹っ飛ばない。〆で使うのもあり。 ・JB：受け身不能時間短縮。カウンターでバウンド。 ・JD：以前程吹っ飛ばないのでコンボに行けそう。 ・D系：補正ゆるくなった。またOD中ガードポイント 【必殺技】 ・A,Cドラ：補正ゆるく。また姫に5B入らなくなってるらしい。ガジェrcから伸びるようです。 ・Bドラ：ジャヨクみたいに落ちてくる。中央追撃は磁力時5Dかスパーク。端は追撃容易らしい。補正もゆるい。また空かし時の隙が減少。 ・Aスレ：以前より吹っ飛ばなくなったので3C>Aスレ>5Aからのエリアルが出来なくなった。端では壁貼り付け。またバーストに耐えるらしい ・Bスレ：補正キツく。ただ以前より吹っ飛ぶのでコンボはしやすくなった。こちらもバーストに耐えるらしい。 ・追加ハンマー：上中段ハイパーアーマー。ただ以前のようには跳ねないで叩き付けダウン。カウンターしたら5Bで拾える。こちらもバースト耐える。 ・コレダー：補正キツく、飛びが低く6C、2Dとかでは拾えない。5Dやガジェ、スパーク繋がる。 ・ガジェ：補正ゆるくなり、rcからコンボ伸びやすくなった。 ・スパーク：コンボ時間か補正減った？ 【DD】 ・ホイール：以前よりロックしない？(後ろだと最終段スカるとか)また相手が地面に付いたらすぐ復帰。 ・テラブレイク：ホイールの変更により当て方が前より難しくなった。中央は壁バン。端は張り付き。
SoWL Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 5A: starter level increased? 5B > 2B gatling is now limited (5B > 2B > 5B > ×2B) 5D: wall-bounces in mid-screen on hit. Wall-splats in the corner. In OD can be followed up with B Sledge or Collider. More advantageous on block. 6A: makes the opponent slide down in front of you on air hit. 6B: now faster, but not an overhead. 6C: now ground-bounces on regular hit, too (SMP removed?). 2C: on normal hit blows the opponent back slightly. On counter-hit, the opponent flies forward. Can no longer be followed up with A Sledge because of the different blowback. 2D: travels greater distance, but difficult to combo from even on counter-hit. 4D: no longer wall-bounces in the corner. However, now wall-bounces on counter-hit. Does not blow back that far on normal hit. Can still be used as a combo ender. j.B: untech time reduced. Ground-bounces on counter-hit. j.D: seems to lead into new combos, as it doen't blow the opponent that far away. D moves: better combo proration. Also get guard point in OD. A, C Driver: better combo proration. Seems like you can no longer follow it up with 5B against Rachel. Seems to have better pull after Gadget RC. B Driver: launches the enemy Houtenjin-style. In mid-screen can be followed up with 5D (with magnetism) or Spark Bolt. Can be easily followed up in the corner. The proration is better, too. Also has shorter recovery on whiff. A Sledge: since the blowback is different now, you can no longer follow up 3C 236A 5A with an aerial combo. Wall-splats in the corner. Also seems to go through bursts. B Sledge: worse combo proration. Now easier to combo from thanks to the new blowback. This one seems to go through bursts, too. Hammer: hyper-armor against high and mid attacks. No longer ground-bounces, but simply knocks down. Can be followed up with 5B on counter-hit. This one goes through bursts, too. Collider: worse combo proration, the new blowback doesn't let you follow up with 6C or 2D. Can be followed up with 5D, Gadget or Spark Bolt. Gadget: better combo proration, easier to combo after Gadget RC. Spark Bolt: starter level decreased? MTW: no longer locks on? (As in, doesn't land the last hit if the opponent ends up behind Tager). Also, the opponent drops down to the ground much faster. Terra Break: now more difficult to land because of the MTW change. Wall-bounces in mid-screen. Wall-splats in the corner.
ThatHiroGuy Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 What people need to realize is that ASW can't just snap their fingers and bring the game to the US like that. There are the usual costs of making a console port, then the localization costs on top of that, then the infrastructure issues (they do have to bring the game over the goddamn ocean)... Sure, you can make it so they release it at the same time as the Japanese version, but that's pretty much only if they deliberately delay the Japanese release, and that makes little to no sense from the business standpoint (why bother, just so the US doesn't feel left out?). And maybe, just maybe, the world actually doesn't revolve around the States. The only real issue is the arcade thing. It's been made abundantly clear that it (should anyway) help their sales a ton before they bring us our version. Also true, is the fact that it seems a lot easier for them to just put it in an arcade cabinet as opposed to all of the bureaucracy involved in localization, translation, rating, etc etc. It would be kind of backwards, and way more expensive/risky for them to just develop it, put it on consoles everywhere and call it a day. However... there's a lot of things pointing directly to them not needing to have this kind of release schedule outside of the Arcade issue. Especially like, that one year-ish gap between Arcade and even hearing about a console release (let alone American console). - They shouldn't be developing a game if it isn't financially within their power to release a console port without arcade profits. - With sprites already available, and pretty much all of the 'hard' work done (engine, architecture, stages, etc), they shouldn't be spending much money on a new update anyway. - Some, not a lot, but some Japanese games that have typically taken a long time to get here in the past, have been progressing towards a more 'unified' release. Games like Pokemon now being worldwide release, "Tales of-" games being confirmed for the West at the same time as Japan, FFXIV being the same version all across the world at the same time, the list goes on and on. Comes down to being cheap, or lazy. Fighting games are an extremely niche audience, and they're basically taking advantage of the fact that they know we'll wait, since we're conditioned to do so. They could easily do what FFXIV does with localizations, or what Pokemon's doing now, because they're development teams all the same. They just... simply don't want to. More on topic... did they actually talk about a Japanese console release date or something?
Airk Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 More on topic... did they actually talk about a Japanese console release date or something? No.
redsilversnake Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Comes down to being cheap, or lazy. Fighting games are an extremely niche audience, and they're basically taking advantage of the fact that they know we'll wait, since we're conditioned to do so. They could easily do what FFXIV does with localizations, or what Pokemon's doing now, because they're development teams all the same. They just... simply don't want to. SE and Nintendo are both much bigger companies (last I checked, ASW has about 100 total) who have not only the resources to justify simultaneous releases on a regular basis, but overseas name recognition as well. That is not a good comparison at all. You're honestly just coming across as an entitled whiner.
RifleAvenger Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 - They shouldn't be developing a game if it isn't financially within their power to release a console port without arcade profits. - With sprites already available, and pretty much all of the 'hard' work done (engine, architecture, stages, etc), they shouldn't be spending much money on a new update anyway.- Some, not a lot, but some Japanese games that have typically taken a long time to get here in the past, have been progressing towards a more 'unified' release. Games like Pokemon now being worldwide release, "Tales of-" games being confirmed for the West at the same time as Japan, FFXIV being the same version all across the world at the same time, the list goes on and on.When arcade profits are actually the bulk of their sales, yes, they should still develop the game.Blazblue CT was released near simultaneously, and GGXrd will only have a two week wait. The reason that international vs Jp BB releases get further and further apart is simply because we outside of Japan do not meet ArcSys sales expectations well enough to justify ArcSys going the extra mile to convenience us. They give us the benefit of the doubt on the first game, and weigh the cost/benefit on future releases based on the initial sales.That's the truth, and it's one that makes sense. Jp players spend a ton of money on arcade, and then both those players and BB's console only Jp fanbase will buy copies of the console games. Compared to the rest of the world, where a niche community of a niche community will buy a few copies of the console version only. Call it cheap if you want; I'm free to call people who demand the developer bleed money for their personal convenience selfish.Pokemon is not a good comparision. Pokemon is a series that is hugely popular worldwide, backed by one of the biggest gaming companies around. Final Fantasy is the same.Be glad we are worth enough to get a localization. If there's anything I'm upset about, it's less that they take a long time to release the game, and more that they get crappy third party localization (Strangely Compelling) and cut content.
TagerTime Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 This posting appears to have even more updated information for Tager. Please translate this also if its not too much trouble. Thank you 前作からの変更点まとめ D系統：ヒット時持続フレームが消滅し硬直フレームに移行するように？(2D密着ヒットさせるとよくわかる、人形やゲオルグを殴っても前回までのような引き寄せ増加無し、持続当てでも硬直差同じ) OD中のD系統のやられが通常時と同じに、乗算一律72だったのが技毎に違うように(よくなってる) 磁力付与時間：5D、2D、JD→約5秒 4D→約3秒 スパークボルト、ガジェットフィンガー→約8秒 ODGETB→約15秒 5B：空中ノーマルヒット時の受身不能時間低下(20→2Bと同じ17？、攻撃レベル通りになった模様) 5D：乗算72→84、壁バウンド、中央密着でスライドダウン、端で壁張り付き OD中5D：上中段ガードポイント追加 2C：ヒット時浮き高く、ch時テイガーの向いている方向に飛ぶように 2D：乗算72→84、移動距離(持続も？)上昇、ガードさせて＋2、スライドダウンの挙動変化 OD中2D：上下段ガードポイント追加 6A：空中ヒット時テイガー側にスライドダウン 最大タメ6A：補正変わってる 6B：始動80→90、乗算92→89、ダメージ960→520、発生24→15、中段→上段、足属性無敵追加(1Fからではない)、強制しゃがみ食らい削除、空中ヒット時強制ダウン 6C：始動85→100、乗算92→84、同技補正削除、地上ヒットでも浮くように、浮き高く、空中受身不能時間低下 4D：乗算72→89、引き寄せ強化、硬直短く、ガードさせて－2→－1？、足元の攻撃判定削除、ch時地上でも空中でも壁バウンドに OD中4D：上段ガードポイント追加 JB：持続増加(硬直も？)、空中受身不能時間低下、空中ch時バウンドするように JC：空中受身不能時間低下 JD：乗算72→92、空中ヒット時の挙動変化 OD中JD：上中段ガードポイント追加 通常投げ：ダメ1500→1400、空振り時硬直増加 Aドラ：乗算15→60 Bドラ：乗算15→60、ダメ3500→3000、ヒット時吹き飛ぶように Cドラ：乗算15→60、ダメ2800→2700 コレダー：乗算80→72、ダメージ1000(1668)→1350(2250)に、ヒット時の挙動変化 Aスレ：ヒット時の浮き低く、画面端で壁張り付き Bスレ：乗算92→89、ガードさせて＋1→－2、ノーマルヒット時＋8(9?)になり5Aもしくは2Aが繋がるように、空中ヒット時高く浮くように スレ追加：乗算85→90、弾ガードポイント削除、上中段ガードポイント追加、バーストも耐える、ヒット時強制ダウン、コンボ時間N→F スパーク：コンボ時間N→F ガジェ：乗算60→80 ホイール：乗算よくなった(テラブレに補正が残るように)、引き寄せ変化(磁力無し時裏側にあたると最終段スカったり)、緊急受身可能に テラブレ：ヒット時壁張り付き、持続増加？
ThatHiroGuy Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 When arcade profits are actually the bulk of their sales, yes, they should still develop the game. Blazblue CT was released near simultaneously, and GGXrd will only have a two week wait. The reason that international vs Jp BB releases get further and further apart is simply because we outside of Japan do not meet ArcSys sales expectations well enough to justify ArcSys going the extra mile to convenience us. They give us the benefit of the doubt on the first game, and weigh the cost/benefit on future releases based on the initial sales. That's the truth, and it's one that makes sense. Jp players spend a ton of money on arcade, and then both those players and BB's console only Jp fanbase will buy copies of the console games. Compared to the rest of the world, where a niche community of a niche community will buy a few copies of the console version only. Call it cheap if you want; I'm free to call people who demand the developer bleed money for their personal convenience selfish. Pokemon is not a good comparision. Pokemon is a series that is hugely popular worldwide, backed by one of the biggest gaming companies around. Final Fantasy is the same. Be glad we are worth enough to get a localization. If there's anything I'm upset about, it's less that they take a long time to release the game, and more that they get crappy third party localization (Strangely Compelling) and cut content. Absolutely relevant comparison. I'll give everyone Pokemon, that's sort of a different deal, because they know they have a huge fanbase everywhere, and it was just time to stop holding out like that. They just so happen to be rich enough to do it. However, not with FFXIV. Square Enix is a big company with money, yes. Remember they've also been bleeding money for FFXV, they're still developing KH3, and all of these other huge products that haven't earned them anything, and has only lost them money. That being said, FFXIV doesn't have a huge team for what we're talking about- localization. They still have budget constraints too, or so they said over the weekend when they did the Fan Festival panels. Not to mention the fact that apparently SE is mad at Yoshi-P for the money he used on ONE specific addition to the game in a patch. Anyways, the point here is the localization team. With FFXIV, even with a small localization team, they translate roughly the equivalent of one full Kingdom Hearts game for EACH PATCH of the game (every 3-4 months). If I'm remembering their panel correctly, this is with a team of roughly 4 people. The way they achieve it is, they apparently keep their development team, and localization team in quarters very close to one another so that it's not like they just develop something, then send it to someone else and say- "Translate it". It's done side by side. I can't start to believe that other companies can't do this very same thing. I don't know if the translators/localization team is in-house, and that might make a huge difference. If that's the case though, I don't see why Arcsys can't just do the same thing. Why? Tell me this. Do we almost inevitably know at this point, that we will get any new Blazblue that they release? Of course you can never be too sure, but I would go ahead and say it's a pretty good chance that we do. We haven't been left out on their games... well... except for +R, and we even got that eventually. What does this tell you? Eventually they WILL be spending the money to bring it to us. It's not a matter of 'if'. It's only a matter of when. If they're going to spend it eventually, I don't see why they don't just get a localization team, or keep the one they have, and have them work side by side with them on the game. Again, I get why they want to do the whole Arcade first thing, I made sure to stress that fact. What I fail to understand, is why it has to be for so long, and why they don't have localization teams working in the meantime. When they know they'll be spending the money for the localization, it boggles me that they wait for a year, while interest over here dwindles. That, and people are more encouraged to just import, resulting in even less sales.
ThatHiroGuy Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 SE and Nintendo are both much bigger companies (last I checked, ASW has about 100 total) who have not only the resources to justify simultaneous releases on a regular basis, but overseas name recognition as well. That is not a good comparison at all. You're honestly just coming across as an entitled whiner. I should have multi-quoted, and I'm not going to continue with the derail (if it's considered that), but I wanted to reiterate things for you too. SE is a big company, but the team for FFXIV is split off, and not as huge as you think. The team for localization is NOT big, and consists of very few individuals. Name recognition goes a long way, agreed. But that's not the point. The point is that they, almost inevitably at this point, release their games over here. So that money and time gets spent regardless, it's just when they choose to do it. That's not entitlement, or whining. They really don't absolutely 'have' to release their games over here at all. Gotta be happy that at least they are. The issue is their logic behind it. They want an American audience, or at least our money. The American audience is more or less alienated and not payed attention to for upwards of a year (outside of advertising their game at EVO and such), while the Japanese audience shapes the game. Then they don't even announce both region's release dates at the same time. They announce Japan's, then they wait for months, and announce America's. All I'm saying is, with their goal of making money off us, it's very backwards.
SoWL Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 @Tager notes: I'm afraid I'm out of time to translate them today, so if anyone else wants to, go ahead. I'll take a stab at it tomorrow if no one else does by then.
White Man Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 So is there a general consensus on the quality of the gameplay in 2.0 yet? Like, do players generally seem to be of the opinion that the changes made the game better/more fun to play, or is the update being seen as a step backward in terms of balance and playability? Or is it still too early to tell yet?
Sashi Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I see a lot of people talking about maybe switching characters. Not really a good sign. Valk seems better now, which means I'm gonna hate it, at least.
Stellarcircle5 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I see a lot of people talking about maybe switching characters. Not really a good sign. Valk seems better now, which means I'm gonna hate it, at least.To put your mind at ease he lost quite a few tools that frustrated people. And I'll say the same thing I've said before, the wolf meter nerf from 1.1 is still in effect, and its significant. Personally, I'm worried about Carl. The freaking kid was SO S-tier in 1.1, and now they gave him even more tools.
TD Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Eh I don't know if he was s tier but Carl could certainly hold his own once he got the foe in his clutches, without unblockables even though they were still prevalent. Even still the devs have not fixed any of Carl's glaring weaknesses, and good Carl players are things of legend (or slightly rare in Japan). I think he lost the in unblocks and is just a mixup character now, or they just got more gimmicky. I don't think he's going to be too bad but then again, all his problem characters got nerfed soooo.......
Errol Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 They seem to have fucked up balance good in this game, sadly. Probably switching to valk after console hits.
Stellarcircle5 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Eh I don't know if he was s tier but Carl could certainly hold his own once he got the foe in his clutches, without unblockables even though they were still prevalent. Even still the devs have not fixed any of Carl's glaring weaknesses, and good Carl players are things of legend (or slightly rare in Japan). I think he lost the in unblocks and is just a mixup character now, or they just got more gimmicky. I don't think he's going to be too bad but then again, all his problem characters got nerfed soooo.......Haha, yeah. It's more of a personal bias since I have a really strong Carl player in my scene who bodies me relentlessly. My main gripe is the fact that Nirvana meter is seemingly endless when optimized, meaning he just gets in once and wins. Not great when you also play a character that is susceptible to having their reversal options auto-baited. Also, welcome to the pack, Errol
MoneyD90 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 What's messed up about the balance in 2.0? I honestly have not been keeping up with everyone but I know the ppl at the top ie: litchi,valk,Rachel,koko are not wtf good anymore. Granted this is coming from a Makoto main. Lol
SixWingedAngel Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 The balance of the game is fine- if one was playing the game before (*cough* kokonoe *cough*), there's no reason to why he wouldn't now. Loyal makoto mains have my respect btw, in contrast to ppl who switch chars every new patch.
susano Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 What's bothering you about them? What I see in videos, she's still looking really good! Yeah, I'm starting to see that now.
Recommended Posts