[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

[TagerTime]

if I recall correctly hazama is again putting out retarded damage as a result of the new version/ OD changes. 100 heat and OD leading to 9k I believe it was.  We'll see though.

 

here is the combo

http://www40.atwiki.jp/blazblue/pages/2629.html

 

瀕死時OD5C蛇翼コン

OD>5C>OD蛇翼>緑裂閃>ｽﾃ6D>CT>ｽﾃ5C>2D>蛇刹待機>一瞬前蛇滑緑牙昇>ｽﾃ5C>4DA>J8DA>蛇咬>OD蛟竜

dm:8596　吸収込みで9000

[StylisH]

if I recall correctly hazama is again putting out retarded damage as a result of the new version/ OD changes. 100 heat and OD leading to 9k I believe it was.  We'll see though.

That doesn't shock me at all. He is their golden child so to speak.

[SoWL]

Making BlazBlue, founding both NOL and Sector Seven, being immune to nerfs... Is there anything Hazama CAN'T do?

[Master Of Chaos]

Kill Hakumen.

[Calamitus]

Making BlazBlue, founding both NOL and Sector Seven, being immune to nerfs... Is there anything Hazama CAN'T do?

He can't stop being awesome. Army of haters just proves it.

[Narroo]

This might be dredging up an old argument, but:

 

Remember that comment about Mori trying to bring back the originality of the original game?  I've given it some thought.

 

I've noticed that the newer characters tend to be a bit more similar in how they play in terms of broad strokes.  The original Blazblue had characters like Nu, Ratchel, Arakune, and all those other people you didn't play, like Carl, or Mike-Z. 

 

Most of the characters played quite different not simply in terms of game-plan,  but in how they handled, what they could do- it was like most characters were playing on their own game engines.

 

For Example: Most of the newer characters tend to be be bit similar in that they're rush-down or mix-up characters that usually have kind of mix of meter and mode limitations.  Let's see:  Yayoi, Relius, Valk, Tsubaki, Platinum, and Hot Pants.  They're, in many ways, variations of the same theme: Manage a resource limitation that gives you nice attacks.  Their individual game plans are different; The characters I've named do play differently, but it's not like the differences between oh Say: Tager, Arakune, Ratchel, and Nu.  They're simply brawlers with different strengths, weaknesses, and quirks.  Nothing mind blowing.

 

And to an extent, one can argue that the other characters have gravitated that sort of sameness were everyone seems to have elements that blur together a bit.

 

 

Thoughts?

[StylisH]

This might be dredging up an old argument, but:

 

Remember that comment about Mori trying to bring back the originality of the original game?  I've given it some thought.

 

I've noticed that the newer characters tend to be a bit more similar in how they play in terms of broad strokes.  The original Blazblue had characters like Nu, Ratchel, Arakune, and all those other people you didn't play, like Carl, or Mike-Z. 

 

Most of the characters played quite different not simply in terms of game-plan,  but in how they handled, what they could do- it was like most characters were playing on their own game engines.

 

For Example: Most of the newer characters tend to be be bit similar in that they're rush-down or mix-up characters that usually have kind of mix of meter and mode limitations.  Let's see:  Yayoi, Relius, Valk, Tsubaki, Platinum, and Hot Pants.  They're, in many ways, variations of the same theme: Manage a resource limitation that gives you nice attacks.  Their individual game plans are different; The characters I've named do play differently, but it's not like the differences between oh Say: Tager, Arakune, Ratchel, and Nu.  They're simply brawlers with different strengths, weaknesses, and quirks.  Nothing mind blowing.

 

And to an extent, one can argue that the other characters have gravitated that sort of sameness were everyone seems to have elements that blur together a bit.

 

 

Thoughts?

I beg your pardon?

[SoWL]

It's easier to make characters with original gameplay when there are less of them.

[TD]

sort of makes sense. not sure how it will be handled in the future if this is the case; assuming this is possibly what they meant, that is. every new character minus makoto has a meter or weakpoints or heat up to manage, and it is usually "just hit the foe"

[chzchan]

But Kagura and Celica. Terumi to an extent because everyone has to manage their heat meter already.

 

But then you could just generalize Terumi as a Ragna clone and Celica as a Noel clone.

[Luminos564]

I guess you could make the argument that there was a lot of resource management even in CT. Tager had the Spark Bolt charge and of course magnetism which had a limit. Ragna and Taokaka could enter into their powered up states (Blood Kain and Almost Becoming Two). Carl and Nirvana, Bang's Furinkazan and nails, Hakumen's whole meter shtick and to a lesser extent, Jin back when he was the only character to use 25 meter for anything. Arakune grew into this come CS since there's not a whole lot of "managing" when all you needed was a single Drive attack to instantly beckon the swarm. About the only ones not really fitting the bill is Noel, Nu-13 and Litchi (unless you wish to count Nu's Gravity seed and Litchi's staff manipulations as "resource management").

[Sashi]

I beg your pardon?

 

He means that the other ones are similar, not the ones you highlighted.

[StylisH]

He means that the other ones are similar, not the ones you highlighted.

 

I just was curious as to what he meant by 'simply brawlers'.  Nu, Rachel, and especially Arakune aren't brawling with ANYONE.

[mAc Chaos]

He meant the other characters are brawlers, compared to them.

[StylisH]

Got it, had to read through it again.  My apologies.

[Narroo]

I am a poor writer, yes.

 

Also, I didn't mean that it was the "special Meter" management that made the characters less unique, rather I was trying to point out that the newer character's unique traits were pretty much being defined by modes and meter management. 

 

For instance: Remove Relius's Ignus Meter and the summoning requirement, then tweak Ignus's moves so that she's not totally broken.  Relius's "D" basically becomes a fancy "Extra Hard" attack button and he looses a lot of what makes his gameplay unique.

 

Now try that to Ratchel:  Take away her wind meter and tone down her moves a bit to compensate.  Guess what?  She still plays unequivocally like Ratchel Alucard and looses nothing.

 

 

What I'm trying to get at is:  A lot of the newer character's "Uniqueness" can be destroyed through a few simple changes;  just take away meter or mode limitations and you've got a straight forward character that doesn't invoke the same sort of "Ohh, ahh" that some of the older cast members did.

[Airk]

I am a poor writer, yes.

 

Also, I didn't mean that it was the "special Meter" management that made the characters less unique, rather I was trying to point out that the newer character's unique traits were pretty much being defined by modes and meter management. 

 

For instance: Remove Relius's Ignus Meter and the summoning requirement, then tweak Ignus's moves so that she's not totally broken.  Relius's "D" basically becomes a fancy "Extra Hard" attack button and he looses a lot of what makes his gameplay unique.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect; The ability to do Ignis moves WHILE doing other things is what makes Relius work. Therefore, even if you did this, he'd still be able to do all his unique stuff.

What I'm trying to get at is:  A lot of the newer character's "Uniqueness" can be destroyed through a few simple changes;  just take away meter or mode limitations and you've got a straight forward character that doesn't invoke the same sort of "Ohh, ahh" that some of the older cast members did.

Honestly, I thought what you were saying made more sense before you started saying this.

[D.R.F.]

I come in to read an relius being broken. Wtf

[StylisH]

I come in to read an relius being broken. Wtf

He's suggesting changes, but adjustments to said changes that won't have them at gawd tier

[ThatHiroGuy]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect; The ability to do Ignis moves WHILE doing other things is what makes Relius work. Therefore, even if you did this, he'd still be able to do all his unique stuff.

Honestly, I thought what you were saying made more sense before you started saying this.

 

It makes a decent amount of sense, though I think it's not really the most fair of arguments to throw out there. Drive more or less IS what makes characters in the game unique, and set them apart from one another. It wouldn't be Blazblue without it, and the 'originality' of the characters, not exclusively, but mostly comes from that.

 

That being said, I think it'd be hard to make their drive feel 'cool' or like it has an impact on their play-style any other way than it is now. 

[TD]

that's only because you see it for what it is now. it is entirely possible. let me tell you something, back in ct, I thought rachel could never be bad due to her design, and then cs happened.

[Narroo]

that's only because you see it for what it is now. it is entirely possible. let me tell you something, back in ct, I thought rachel could never be bad due to her design, and then cs happened.

But that was mainly a case of bad numbers, no?  Pretty much any character can be bad if their damage is low enough.  Or was there something else they broke?

 

And..oh, I really can't explain what I'm trying to say, can I. (Dear god, my ability to say or write what I mean has been terrible all my life.)  And no, I wasn't saying you should break Relius; if you were ever remove Ignus's current limitations, as I said, you'd have to tweak the rest of her to compensate.  The question would be:  Would tweaking how she works in order to balance him break the example. 

 

But what ever, what I was trying to say is that most of the newer characters feel like they pilot and play similarly in certain respects.

[Airk]

But what ever, what I was trying to say is that most of the newer characters feel like they pilot and play similarly in certain respects.

I know what you're saying, but I don't, actually think this has anything to do with them being 'new' or 'less unique' or whatever. It just has to do with there being more characters. For example, if you went back in time and altered CT so that instead of Ragna, Jin and Bang, it had Tsubaki, Bullet and Makoto, you wouldn't have reduced how original each character in CT felt. And when you later added in Ragna, Jin and Bang you'd start to think "Well, the new characters just aren't as unique." it's because there are only so many fundamental game plans in fighting games; Roughly, I'd say there's "Standard Footsies" "Standard Rushdown", "Highly Mobile", "Zoning", "Trap/Setup." and "Grappler" and... that's about it. So once you have more than... maybe 8 or 10 characters, you're just working on variations within those archetypes, and no matter what you do, characters are going to start feeling more similar than they did when there were only 8.

Now, to be fair, I DO think that characters whose drive is basically a "Normal with special properties" like Ragna, Jin, and Azrael, are less inherently differentiated from characters that get a more nonstandard Drive, but that's just my opinion.

[TD]

Everything about rachel was a shattered doll back in cs. No pumpkin, no instant overhead, no wind, no damage, no pressure, no 6a, td was ass, harder resourced combos for less damage (4k from 100 heat and good starter), barely any good oki outside corner, was cat chair worse? I can't remember, low primers.

Without 236a she would have been DEAD. ironic, right?

[Dreiko]

I recall in CS1 Tempest Dahlia actually used up one wind too. The "why" in my head when I realized it did that was unprecedented lol. (Somehow Tager and Tsubaki were even worse though....boggles the mind)