TagerTime Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Hope I'm not too late with this! TAGER ANALYSIS CP1.1: And then they nerfed his backdash. CP2: When I first saw Dogura claiming he's become S-tier, I was skeptical. To see others agreeing with him has prompted me to take a closer look at match videos. Some of his changes have mindblowing implications. Hammer followup gaining guard point not only makes poking Tager more dangerous, it also allows him to bait bursts and CAs. In all previous versions, Sledge was a guaranteed CA/burst for the opponent, but here it carries a huge risk. His ability to convert hits into combos was already pretty good in previous versions, but it's gone through the roof in CP2. Midscreen 6C gives Tager an unconditional 5k, midscreen 5D is an unconditional 3.5k, and random j.D hits pretty much always lead to a combo. Though I wonder if people are going too far by saying he's S-tier. I still haven't been able to understand how Nu is getting steamrolled. No fancy version tier list. In 1.1 they also nerfed his 5A alot. But in CP2 they unerffed it back up some to where its good again. Also it seems like they buffed his back dash back up a little bit too. Even Dora says Tager is A, so he is at the least between A and S tier. if you look at Zombie's guild card, who is currently the #1 ranked Tager in Japan at 16th Dan, it shows his total Win loss record of all his matches against Nus. Its very impressive. vs Nu: 245 matches 217 wins (89%) http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://sp.bbcp.ac/member_record_battle_view.php%3Fuser_id%3D44992%26charactor%3Dtg&usg=ALkJrhgQePbYtwJmr2k1JczW7bxG_76XpQ I also like how their is not a single Nu in the overall Top 20 highest Dan rankings while Zombie's Tager is ranked #18th.
TD Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 He's probably going to stay at a. I don't think his core problems are fixed, though his offense is now very very good to compensate. For those who can go higher than super jump height for the average character, and can move around the screen; for those with lengthy physical hitboxes; those who have ways of dealing with the changes on top of having a general ok time against magnetism will be ok. Even still, this likely is the best version of tager. Nu is a wench so she wasn't allowed into top 20. Simple. Can someone do an analysis on Tao please
RWA Announcer Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 As thrilled as I am you guys finally getting the respect and fear that you've deserved for years, I've got to ask, if Tager's chopping up Nu, what chance do my poor Azrael, Lambda and Noel have against this finely-tuned beast? I honestly many vids on how those fights go yet, but I'd say he goes even with Az right now in 1.1 IMO.
TagerTime Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 As thrilled as I am you guys finally getting the respect and fear that you've deserved for years, I've got to ask, if Tager's chopping up Nu, what chance do my poor Azrael, Lambda and Noel have against this finely-tuned beast? I honestly many vids on how those fights go yet, but I'd say he goes even with Az right now in 1.1 IMO. i dont have many vids of Tager against those chars in the Tager video thread but if you check Zombies win loss record to see he dominates against them pretty heavily! Zombie's guild card, who is currently the #1 ranked Tager in Japan at 16th Dan http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://sp.bbcp.ac/member_record_battle_view.php%3Fuser_id%3D44992%26charactor%3Dtg&usg=ALkJrhgQePbYtwJmr2k1JczW7bxG_76XpQ vs Azrael: 242 matches 175 wins (72%) vs Noel: 128 matches 122 wins (95%) vs lambda: 22 matches 18 wins (82%)
CosmicShadow99 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 i dont have many vids of Tager against those chars in the Tager video thread but if you check Zombies win loss record to see he dominates against them pretty heavily! Zombie's guild card, who is currently the #1 ranked Tager in Japan at 16th Dan http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://sp.bbcp.ac/member_record_battle_view.php%3Fuser_id%3D44992%26charactor%3Dtg&usg=ALkJrhgQePbYtwJmr2k1JczW7bxG_76XpQ vs Azrael: 242 matches 175 wins (72%) vs Noel: 128 matches 122 wins (95%) vs lambda: 22 matches 18 wins (82%) Guess Lambda isn't seeing much love...
Arcus Diabolus Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Guess Lambda isn't seeing much love... Well, not against Tager at least. Which brings me to my next question, what is the state of Lambda as a whole against the rest of the cast?
Stellarcircle5 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Well, not against Tager at least. Which brings me to my next question, what is the state of Lambda as a whole against the rest of the cast? She hasn't been getting much use, what with Nu being da god. From what I've gathered she seems to be pretty middling, probably smack dab in the centre of B tier. At least she's not trash.
Litherain-XIII Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Well overall ppls opinion about her is that she is generally a inferior version of Nu-13 whose primary functionality serves similar to mu-12 in CP2 but more towards a zoner resemblance of Nu in this aspect if that makes sense. the idea is like mu12 but more zoner while mu12 was more like a Nu 13 but with a pseudo ragna twist to it as far as her normals are concerned imo. But because she almost plays like Nu 13 but more limited in terms of zoning pressure options she is less effective overall since her drives don't gatling much like Nu's does. thus her control over her opponents options in neutral seems to play out rather lack luster to a degree and requires either meter to further assist in mix up or other methods to make up for her offense. even her crescent saber curves extremely close to her unlike NU's whose version is further out making it more viable for mix up if needed. just my opinion on the matter
D.R.F. Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Idk, she just seems like a wasted character slot. I mean in a game with three different murakumos-one with outlandishly solid zoning and overall strength, another who still zones but is also oriented to footsies, AND then one more who is in the middle but not as strong-like who are you actually going to choose? Idk but all I know is that we need dat babe called Nine and her kitty Kat musashi husband
TD Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I also wonder whose bright idea it was to include a palette swap of nu. Lambda could have been a shadow character at most, not a completely different character. I think lambda is more focused on the physical aspect of nu, doing close up mixups, having sickle store to lock them down so she can get in. D serves more as an approach method done poorly than a zoning tool. And she is supposed to do throw shenanigans. All stuff that nu could have had instead of being zoning oriented or something.
Tong Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Yes, Lambda definitely feels like a close-medium ranged character with many projectiles. Unlike Nu whose combos and setups always put the opponent far, her most optimal position.
Arcus Diabolus Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 If her close range options were buffed enough to make up for the lack of long range tools, I think she'd be solid enough. I do think they could have gotten away with adding a bunch more things unique to her while nerfing or removing things that makes her overly similar to Nu. A character rework, if you will. Natually, she'd need to keep a bunch of the same stuff, like her appearance and Drive attacks, but everything else is flexible, tbh.
Myoro Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I'm willing to speculate that they just wanted to take two different directions with Nu's character model and the result was this convenient resurrection of Lambda. Sure I wish the sprite was different or somethin' but who's to say she won't eventually get the Minerva treatment and get a sprite of her very own one day? And I'm willing to bet they'll differentiate their playstyles and art assets further as the series progresses through patches and sequels. Or they could ultimately can Lambda in a Xrd-esqe reboot.
TD Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Changing her down the line is expected at this point. The problem here is, she could have another character until the devs had at least some semblance of the direction they wanted to take with her. She is too similar to nu right now.
Myoro Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 It's a current issue yes. But really the bigger problem I see is not so much that Lambda isn't different, it's that shes just inferior. She does have some marked differences yes, but none are very good reasons to select her over her sister. (At least from what I've seen.) My other working theory is that someone somewhere in the dev department lost a bet to Mori and now has to design a new Murakumo for every new edition of BB, and has started to get lazy.
TD Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 That is also true. I think both roles play an equal part, honestly. The fact that she isn't too different and the fact that she is lamer. Similarity counts because, no one is going to pick up lambda and say, "wow, I love her but nu looks so boring..." That would be absurd unless there were some lambda lovers who didn't like nu - I'm willing to bet there aren't many of those as they were already the same character on many occasions. Of course, being inferior, the other 99% who are not in the above category, will just pick up the top tier. Both points currently contribute to this character just being a waste for right now. Don't forget we are probably all paying 60 or something dollars just to continue playing cp with 1 and a half new characters. I'm a bit miffed at their character decisions as a whole. While I can hold that L with a lame celica though, lambda was a questionable decision overall.
White Man Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I honestly believe Lambda was added to the game purely for aesthetic reasons. Aside from keeping the character select portraits symmetrical, Lambda's inclusion gives CP2 the feel of being a dream match title, even though it's technically canon. The fact that EVERY playable character from every version of BB is included in CP2 is a nice selling point, even though Nu and Lambda have been wholly interchangeable up to this point.
Poultrygeist Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 And because of it we got the Nu World Order
7thFonon Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Yeah Lamda overall is bland in comparison to Nu-13 sadly. It's not even like simple things like damage, they literally stripped away half of this character's options. Like even her D attacks......you can't even just press 5D and get only one sword to come out like Nu can. If your 5D makes contact, Lambda automatically combos into 5DD whether you want to or not.... Essentially leading to more predictable blockstrings. Then her damage and confirms are a lot weaker than Nu's, especially when you can't really get much off a long range 5D. And they also took away Lamda's 214D~C and 236D~C, which limits her options even more (but Nu still has these attacks, asw's balancing team decided to only take these attacks away from Lamda specifially). Nu-13 can special cancel her 214x, but Lamda can't. Lamda of course still has her 236A teleport, however I don't beleive is much better than 5D66 (teleport attack that Nu has)....Actually, I'd much rather have 5D66 since it can easily crossup your opponent (unlike 236A which has to be close to the opponent in order to cross up)...... The sad part about all of this, is that I could keep going if I really wanted to. i dont have many vids of Tager against those chars in the Tager video thread but if you check Zombies win loss record to see he dominates against them pretty heavily! Zombie's guild card, who is currently the #1 ranked Tager in Japan at 16th Dan http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://sp.bbcp.ac/member_record_battle_view.php%3Fuser_id%3D44992%26charactor%3Dtg&usg=ALkJrhgQePbYtwJmr2k1JczW7bxG_76XpQ vs Azrael: 242 matches 175 wins (72%) vs Noel: 128 matches 122 wins (95%) vs lambda: 22 matches 18 wins (82%) lol that tager actually goes to one of the arcades I play at. Had no idea he was the number 1 ranked Tager in japan. :V And Tager beats Noel like that though? damn.
Airk Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Kagura Kagura God Tier, Hakumen C-tier? Pass the pipe.
Arcus Diabolus Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Its gonna be interesting, to say the least. Nice to see high tier Ragna, but I was hoping Noel would get a bit higher, even if that meant by everyone else getting weaker. Maybe thats selfish of me, but whatever.
swordsman09 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I'm pretty much happy that Makoto is no longer the bottom. I just need to get that 1.1 trash out of my head.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Kagura Yo I want whatever he's smokin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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