Dark Ranger88 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Heck, I do this with Hakumen and Makoto. Nobody ever sees 6B > RC > 6B with Mak! I always feel bad when they get hit by both 6Bs
OmnixTSC Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I always feel bad when they get hit by both 6Bs I don't. That's what they get for not blocking my american reset. That'll teach them to always crouch block during my combos looking for a drop!
STenSatsu Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I don't perceive Amane as being that weak, just very unforgiving. The only buffs I'm crossing my fingers for are to ease of use as long as his major problem match-ups get a bit toned down (Taokaka, Hakumen, KOKONOE). A better 5a and 2a would do wonders for him defensively.
SoWL Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 When I said " relying too much on drive leads to bad results with most characters" I didn't mean that you should omit completely from using drive, I mainly meant that spamming drive will generally just get your ass kicked by skilled player. ...But that's true for every single option out there. I think no one at this point thinks that spamming a single move can ever lead to good results, be it a random drive or whatever. Personally I like to cycle them a lot, mainly to make it harder for the opponent keep track of the item. Sometimes i'll just keep that Cat hammer or Bat in my inventory just for mind games, maybe use it once to tell the opponent clearly what item I currently have (often it opens so many gaps in their pressure that you wouldn't believe!). They can simply look at your staff to know what item you have, you know. In Platinum's chase most of her items are good in pretty much every match-up, even presents. Hell there's combo/trick or two for pretty much all of them from nearly every confirm. Sure some of them are better than others in some match-ups and stuff like bat and cat hammer can help you fill a gap in your blocking and dashing skill, but you certainly don't need any items to approach a zoner her running speed and normals are more than enough for that. Sure, most of her items are good against all characters, but there are many cases in each match where getting wrong items just makes things that much harder for you. Imagine getting blown away by Nu's sickle and having hammer equipped (with, say, pan next in line), or getting no bats for the whole match against Tao or Valk. Sometimes your gameplan is simply not good enough without proper items: sure, sometimes you can get a win despite getting screwed by RNG, but that's not too likely if your opponent knows how to capitalize on your shortcomings.
Tokkan Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 The Stage and BGM DLC included with BBAM LE BD Vol 3 has been revealed. http://blazblue-am.jp/dvd/ Stages: Orient Town Ronin-Gai Rest Time Ronin-Gai -Night- Bascule BGM: MOTOR HEAD Oriental Flower Reppuu Howling Moon Active Angel
Stellarcircle5 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 So I have to buy the terrible anime to bring about the return of Hype Dog. Why is life so cruel.
Seiska Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I agree about Tsubaki being solid this time around. If she has the resources available, one touch from her will just freaking kill you. In terms of "the weakest character" I really only see Amane and Izayoi as the only two that have trouble being viable. Characters like Makoto, Plat, Tsubaki, and Bullet can win, you just have to have really strong fundamentals. I wish the same could be said for Terumi, but goddamn I don't know what Arcsys was thinking when they made that character. "Run really fast, have hilariously bad mixup, and spend meter to get meter back. Derp." A friend of mine had to stop playing him because he couldn't stand how low the skill ceiling was and how little you have to think. Poor Terumi, he deserved better. Agreed with the strong fundamentals part, but isn't that really a requirement to do well even with the top-tier characters, especially the ones who lack a proper defensive options? I mostly play against few of my friends and in local fighter game scene, the one who I play most against plays Taokaka pretty well and subs Litchi and Azrael. He's mostly been complaining about how Platinum seems impossible to punish, and he has been having trouble finding any good mix-ups for Tao. Azrael seems just silly, most of the time the character can be IB'd to hell and back since his attack timings seem so goddamn obvious (links? really now...) and most of his attacks have like bazillion recovery making Happy magicka just that much more solid. Sure he deals damage and has good cross-up potential but that's not much if you can't get in. But guess me and him are just missing something. Had some problems with Tao first, mainly with her pretty much endless corner pressure, but after learning not to eat every goddamn 5C or 6C she threw at me and some funky neutral the match-up became a lot easier (still a match-up where anything can happen). Tao does seem like really tough character to use though, one failed combo or getting eaten by anti-air can cost her a lot more than some other characters. would love a better 2A and/or not so risky happy magicka for this match-up tough, other than that don't really see what the problem is. Honest to good I believe if plat had better normals she would be a better character in general (sorry If it sounds dumb) so that she doesn't have to rely on RNG SO MUCH. That's from an outside perspective. Also I know she has no reversal option and she can't deal with ranged warfare like faust and teddie can in their own games I actually find most of her normals pretty solid, especially 2B which seems to low-profile everything and has rather good range when used from dash. 5B is a pretty fast and solid poke with range that can surprise most characters. 6A is fast and denies most jump-in attempts and has ridiculous vertical hitbox (hits even crawling Tao!). Mainly her 2A is godawful outside pressure and her C-moves (not including 5C) can be a bit slow. While they are not dirty, cheap or broken her normals are pretty versatile and suit her balanced and situational play-style pretty well. Ranged warfare can be tough for most characters, but in those it's often all about timing your dashes and jumps to gaps. But still would guess that Lamda and Rachel are probably her toughest match-ups when RNG god isn't on your side. Both of them have weak defensive game though, which often leads to this. Edited February 6, 2014 by Seiska
Kinkuli Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Snip Ehm Azrael can just hit platinums counter with 5A and hold back to block the followup and punish you. If the azrael you're playing is bad then sure it works! Now i give you that Platinum can zone him out if she has the correct items. Problem is that once azrael gets in and get few hits, you're pretty much done. And if he happens to get a HP lead and you get him of your neck. Then you need to come to him and that's where he wants you. And really, you link a match of a 12dan platinum against a 2dan V-13? Really now? Sure dan ranking isn't clear indication of skill but you can clearly see that the platinum player is better player So if you wanna NTR everyone into thinking platinum is good then that video really isn't the best proof to give tbh. Sure she isn't garbage, Dogura ranked her around B tier in his latest list so there's that. Then again when you think of S tier and A tier in this game, B tier is pretty bad already. Top tiers in this game don't give a shit if you have few good normals or few good options. If you ever want to win something that really matters, your character NEEDS to have bullshit to deal with the current top tier. Platinum does not have bullshit. She's borderline solid sure but that just isn't enough in this game. We can talk all day about OUTPLAYING your opponents but those things have nothing to do with how good or bad your character is. Whelp im done. Gimme the patch so i can go grind Azrael in arcades. For now i guess i'll go spam funnels to Full boost lobbies. EDIT: Don't really feel like wasting space for a post so I'll just add reply here. Just tell your friend stop autopiloting to 5B and maybe use 5A gustaf, 5A 2A gustaf etc. Sounds like he could just do that and you would eat conterhits all day. This or just direct him to Azrael subforums where people can teach him how to azrael. Because frankly, if he knew what he was doing, you wouldnt want to push buttons. Atleast not 5A. Edited February 6, 2014 by Kinkuli I can't write english
Seiska Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) That's if you are using the counter incorrectly, it's fast enough to be used against slow moves on reaction, he has a lot of these. When he get's in I usually just opt to instant block his attacks, and when I see my character flash I'll just smash 5A and i'll usually be the one doing the pressure after that, or combo if he tries to press buttons since PT's 5A has like 6 frames start-up and IB seems to make pretty much all of his frame-traps unsafe. 6 Frame 5A is all you need. Solution for this would help him greatly though, and make the match a bit more interesting for me as well. The point was mainly to show the corner pressure, it's pretty much filled with 50/50 stuff and though to escape without a proper reversal. [Edit] Doguras tier-list seems far more reasonable, mainly due to C-tier making more sense and S-tier having way less characters. Edited February 6, 2014 by Seiska
Airk Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Tsubaki got a good buff though. Most tsubaki mains agree that this is her second best appearance behind cs2. This is a super low bar though, considering that she was BEYOND TERRIBLE in CS1, and bottom tier in CSE. So basically all you've said is "they boosted her out of absolute crap tier." I don't think she's that low, more difficult to win with, since you DO have to work for your stripes Let's put it this way - they keep refusing to give her anything honestly strong (and taking away anything that gets close). Pretty much all of the characters in this game who are good have something where people can say "Crap! <character X>'s <thing Y> is really mean!". The sentence for Tsubaki should PROBABLY read: "Crap! Tsubaki's pressure is really mean!" except that it's NOT because her normals are such garbage. As far as I'm concerned, she's basically the same as Makoto except: A) Makoto doesn't need to fill up a special magic bar to do actual damage B) Tsubaki has a couple of tools that help her in neutral if she manages to fill up the special magic bar. Otherwise, they're both characters who have to win on sheer, raw, "I play this game so much better than you that the fact that your character has tons of advantages over mine doesn't matter." skill. It's all well and good to say "If Tsubaki has the resources available, she can blow you up!" when they keep making it harder for her to get those resources. I mean, it's not as if she's got some sort of Hakumen "I just need overdrive to make a comeback!" thing going on. Usually it's more like "I just need overdrive! and 50 meter! A strong starter! and at least one charge!" Yeah. Is she actually the worst in the game? No. I think that honor goes to her 'Super mode', Izayoi. Is she in the bottom 5 in my opinion. Yup.
Dark Ranger88 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Stuff about Tsubaki. Dude...Hitting the opponent with a non D Special should give Tsubaki a little bit of charge. If each special gave her 1/3 of a stock when she landed them, then her midscreen BnBs (I think) would give her one stock by doing 236x > 214x > 22x. That way she could get stocks by comboing and being offensive in addition to the stocks you gain from charging in neutral. Or she should just have a comboable move that gives her one or two stocks but ends the combo (Imagine something like Ragna's 22C from CS, but it gives her stocks). Yo, one of the developers probably pitched this idea for Tsubaki, but instead they used it to build Izayoi.
Sophisticat Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Man, this thread. If a character isn't OP, then it must be shit. Guys, anyone can win in this game. It is, imo, the most balanced BB so far. Player skill matters more than tiers in most cases. Case in point, our local Tsubaki has got to be one of the most annoying players to play against. He's hard to read and very good at capitalizing on random hits, and will DP your face if you let him. Just get good with a character and you'll climb your local ranks.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 ^Agreed on both accounts. The game is very well balanced, this has been overall my fav iteration of BB thus far.
FinalDoomGuy Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Man, this thread. If a character isn't OP, then it must be shit. Guys, anyone can win in this game. It is, imo, the most balanced BB so far. Player skill matters more than tiers in most cases. Case in point, our local Tsubaki has got to be one of the most annoying players to play against. He's hard to read and very good at capitalizing on random hits, and will DP your face if you let him. Just get good with a character and you'll climb your local ranks. I'd agree completely if Kokonoe wasn't in the game. Other than that, yeah the balance is pretty good. Doesn't mean you can't wish that the lower tier characters get a little bit of love, even just to make playing them feel better (Izayoi's buffs for example). Improvements can be made, and what better time to ask than when a balance patch is due?
Airk Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 ^Agreed on both accounts. The game is very well balanced, this has been overall my fav iteration of BB thus far. I'd pick Extend over CP for balance in a heartbeat, and balance in Extend was...okay.
Kiba Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Dude...Hitting the opponent with a non D Special should give Tsubaki a little bit of charge. If each special gave her 1/3 of a stock when she landed them, then her midscreen BnBs (I think) would give her one stock by doing 236x > 214x > 22x. That way she could get stocks by comboing and being offensive in addition to the stocks you gain from charging in neutral. Or she should just have a comboable move that gives her one or two stocks but ends the combo (Imagine something like Ragna's 22C from CS, but it gives her stocks). Please think about this a little more carefully. That would be unnecessary. She already has ways of acquiring charge during her combos, and on top of all that she has a command grab which gives her approximately 2 and a half charge.
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I'd pick Extend over CP for balance in a heartbeat, and balance in Extend was...okay. But then we'd valks 4k avg damage output.... so no Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Eshi Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I'd pick Extend over CP for balance in a heartbeat, and balance in Extend was...okay.CP is less balanced than Extend but 10000x more interesting and fun. Maybe it's just because I played Makoto though.
Daramue Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 While I think CP's balance is pretty solid, I'd still have to say that Extend is probably more balanced, albeit very slightly. That said, I still enjoy BBCP better than extend.
Errol Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 CP is less balanced than Extend but 10000x more interesting and fun. Maybe it's just because I played Makoto though. CP 1.5 will hopefully give us the best of both worlds. Makoto is more interesting and fun in CP but ultimately she's just really simple. But I'm hearing the problem with Makoto was really just a matter of player skill. Oh well. Interested to see what they do next month. Things look to be like pretty small tweaks.. Meaning we might get a well balanced game since the way every char should go is quite obvious at this point.
redsilversnake Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Anyone who thinks this game is well balanced is delusional. Top players have noted multiple times that the gap between the top tiers and bottom is huge. Hell, even the gap from top to mid might be more pronounced than in the last two versions. Face it, ASW has no clue what they're doing when it comes to character balance, and it shows in every game. CS2 was the closest they got to good balance, and it still had some glaring issues.
Dark Ranger88 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Please think about this a little more carefully. That would be unnecessary. She already has ways of acquiring charge during her combos, and on top of all that she has a command grab which gives her approximately 2 and a half charge. Lots of things in this game are unnecessary. 9k+ Overdrive combos are unnecessary. Inescapable Black Hole resets are unnecessary. Vortex wolf mixup is unnecessary. She can already get small amounts of charge during her combos? Great. Then these could stack, giving her even more charge. Plus the command throw does 900 damage and leads to another Oki situation that could reverse momentum. Plus how is Tsubaki having more charge unnecessary when it could affect the outcome of a match?
Putin Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 EX was the most balanced game in the series, but people hated it because they've been playing the CS series for years and wanted something new. CP is less balanced but it's definitely not bad. If you exclude a few matchups and Kokonoe, everything can be dealt with on every skill level.
Errol Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Anyone who thinks this game is well balanced is delusional. Top players have noted multiple times that the gap between the top tiers and bottom is huge. Hell, even the gap from top to mid might be more pronounced than in the last two versions. Face it, ASW has no clue what they're doing when it comes to character balance, and it shows in every game. CS2 was the closest they got to good balance, and it still had some glaring issues. it's not unexpected with these huge changes... 1month. Lots of things in this game are unnecessary. 9k+ Overdrive combos are unnecessary. Inescapable Black Hole resets are unnecessary. Vortex wolf mixup is unnecessary. She can already get small amounts of charge during her combos? Great. Then these could stack, giving her even more charge. Plus the command throw does 900 damage and leads to another Oki situation that could reverse momentum. Plus how is Tsubaki having more charge unnecessary when it could affect the outcome of a match? Also kiba command throw is 2 charge flat. but honestly I don't want it to be like this. I would like raw charge speed to be quicker, maybe 20 or 25% quicker. but the truth is that what needs to change is not charge, but other stuff - like normals (13 frame low, 26 frame overhead), or like making the D specials more useful. D moves are barely better than C moves.
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