redsilversnake Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 EX was the most balanced game in the series, but people hated it because they've been playing the CS series for years and wanted something new. CP is less balanced but it's definitely not bad. If you exclude a few matchups and Kokonoe, everything can be dealt with on every skill level. lololno. Extend was them just throwing ideas at the wall and doing whatever. It was a total step down from CS2. And that last sentence is just wrong. CP's problems aren't just "a few matchups and Kokonoe." All you have to do is look at how homogenous most tournament rankings are to get a basic idea of how poorly handled this game's characters are.
Eshi Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 lololno. Extend was them just throwing ideas at the wall and doing whatever. It was a total step down from CS2. And that last sentence is just wrong. CP's problems aren't just "a few matchups and Kokonoe." All you have to do is look at how homogenous most tournament rankings are to get a basic idea of how poorly handled this game's characters are.yeah, americans don't get close to how strong Japanese valk players are and he was the major problem of BBCP before Koko came out. hence Dora calling characters "fish" tier.
Kiba Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Lots of things in this game are unnecessary. 9k+ Overdrive combos are unnecessary. Inescapable Black Hole resets are unnecessary. Vortex wolf mixup is unnecessary. She can already get small amounts of charge during her combos? Great. Then these could stack, giving her even more charge. Plus the command throw does 900 damage and leads to another Oki situation that could reverse momentum. Plus how is Tsubaki having more charge unnecessary when it could affect the outcome of a match? Yeah, there's some unnecessary traits in the game, though I believe It'll be counter productive to add to that list y'know. @Errol: Yeah my bad. Edited February 6, 2014 by Kiba
Tong Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 redsilversnake is right. Let's all come back to a game where most confirms give 40~50 heat and combos that give back all the heat spent, unrewarding midscreen throws, a Burst system that slowly kills you by removing primers and characters that can safely break said primers. Naw man, character balance was fine but the mechanics were ass.
Urichinan Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 At least Extend was the only game where Litchi couldn't corner carry you from everything. Made people like me for just a few months.
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 You have all played gg right? How did you manage to deal with mixups from characters like milia, I-no, chipp and etc. Without complaining? ?? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Not trying to be rude or anything, because there ARE problems as evidenced, but its like ranting about mvc3 its so salt. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Stellarcircle5 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Because GG players are grizzled old men who have memorized an encyclopedia of matchup knowledge. And people do complain about Millia. Believe me. Heavy rushdown/oki characters will always be subject to the scorn of the community. Nah, seriously. Guilty Gear, while it has its imbalances (Chipp is way too good in +R IMO) mostly depends on player skill and the flow of he game in general is is more free form and less flow-charty , so in the right hands even Bridget can blow Zappa the hell up. Blazblue is just a straight up less balanced game where someone like Izayoi is just going to freaking die against someone like Litchi. Watch any Japanese GG tournaments and you will see every character in the game being used on a viable level. BB does not seem to share that luxury. This is why I hope that the March patch just makes everyone below A tier able to compete, because the gap between S/A and B/C is way larger than it needs to be.
NecroTheReaper Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I've only played Ex and CP, but the balance doesn't feel "omfg this is unwinnable". But I play not an S tier but A-tier, so maybe I just don't know what its like to stomp and get stomped by someone. I personally like all the CP mechanics compared to Ex, though I wish I could still have flashy 9k combos. And I havnt played GG, but I want to. I have no idea if its worth buying right now though with Xrd coming out this year, and there's lkme 200 different versions of it that everyone seems to play xD
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Yea, I love that about gg. That's what I feel bb is lacking not everyone has a response to vortex mixups. Not everyone has decent normals or anything to compensate for it, like tsubaki or makoto. Yea they are alright, but tsubaki's repitiore is shit compared to, say valks or litchilitchi, and her drive moves don't augment her overall game well enough. The mechanics are fine to me(od is hype) but like the normal just seems so lopsided Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Argent Zero Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 9k+ Overdrive combos are unnecessary. (∵)< Yeah, who needs 9k+ combos.
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (∵)< Yeah, who needs 9k+ combos. But the hyyype!!!!! :*( hype is real! Hype is lyyyyfe! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Luminos564 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 You have all played gg right? How did you manage to deal with mixups from characters like milia, I-no, chipp and etc. Without complaining? ?? How did I not complain? By not going to tourneys and not giving a rat's ass about being a "pro". Of course, I was also young with GGXX being my first 2D fighter so there was that. Having grown older, I find I do complain but I always find ways to deal with it in the end. Complaining just lets me spit out my frustrations .
Stellarcircle5 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (∵)< Yeah, who needs 9k+ combos. I think Arakune is justified in that regard. If you let him get to curse, you messed up and deserve the punishment.
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 A lot of characters have shitty normals though and that irratates the hell outta me, specially when I look at characters like hazama and valk Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Justice7541 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Arakune is never justified. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Airk Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I've only played Ex and CP, but the balance doesn't feel "omfg this is unwinnable". But I play not an S tier but A-tier, so maybe I just don't know what its like to stomp and get stomped by someone. Did it occur to you that, since you play a character who can compete, you are perhaps not the best judge of how balanced the game is or how 'easy' it is to compete with the lower tier characters? Just sayin'. Believe me. If MY character were A tier I would shut the **** up about everyone except Kokonoe. Edit: Note: You may interpret this as a good reason to buff Tsubaki, if you like. ;P Double edit: Kiba - if you think that we don't want to add to the "unnecessary" list, what do you think of the idea of nerfing Valk down to levels where he no longer has any 'unnecessary' stuff? Honestly, I think having each character have some 'unnecessary' stuff makes the game fun, but it has to be EACH CHARACTER, not "Some of the characters have nonsense that has no right being in this game, while other characters are balanced as if no one has any stupid ****" like we have right now. Edited February 6, 2014 by Airk
NecroTheReaper Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Don't have to sound like an ass about it, I basically said mid post maybe I'm not the best judge xD. All I'm sayin is people find a way to make their character viable (barring koko). We wouldn't have "top" players if their characters were inherently useless.
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 For march 2014 all I want is tsubaki to have faster normals, less stupid combos that work on like one person, and maybe stronger charge moves and Ill be a happy little kid. And if that doesn't happen, ill still use rags ( since he is my main now I have a right to complain about another character??:0 ) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
D.R.F. Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 It would be nice for tsubaki and makoto to have more WTF type tech. They seem too honest and not brutally scary enough Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Angry Guy of DE Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Characters like Tsubaki and Makoto don't need "WTF type tech", they need to have more viable moves that aren't unsafe or gimmicky in design. Makoto has moves like Cosmic Ray and Lander Blow that would be "safe" ways to end pressure aren't used because they either have poor range or can be mashed out making it not really useful as a move to use. These moves generally are only used in OD combos, not even normal bnb's, because they are practically worthless in the neutral. These moves just need to be adjusted so they are efficient at what they were designed to do.
CosmicShadow99 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 arakune is a sin against god and mankind But yet feels so right lol
OmnixTSC Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 It would be nice for tsubaki and makoto to have more WTF type tech. They seem too honest and not brutally scary enough Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk They wouldn't need more absurd tech if the S-tiers were normalized. The S-tiers could still be just that if the reward off of some of their options was lowered. Valk and to a lesser extent Tao can pick up off of practically everything, still do reasonable damage and then put you in the knockdown blender. Hazama can derp you at neutral and hits hard whenever he feels like it. Litchi has great normals as well as strong oki and a strong neutral game. I don't even want to say anything about Kokopuffs. I'll leave that one alone. At the end of the day, I feel the B and C tiered characters are fine outside of a few tweaks here and there that would make sense for each character. What those characters are good at should allow said characters to compete reasonably well with the other tiers. They shouldn't have to play catch-up to the A-tiers and completely dominate their S-tier opponents who have better tools than they do. P.S. Hakumen has DAT BURST damage, a pretty strong neutral game, and near-logic-defying Agito...but he isn't S-tier imo. He sits right at the top of A-tier along with Rachel. Just a side tidbit
FinalDoomGuy Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I suppose it all comes down to how much is too much. Kokonoe wouldn't be too much in a game where everyone had access to unblockable setups and amazing normals and whatever broken thing you can think of etc. but I don't think a game like that would be entertaining to watch or play. I think one of the problem is that combos are inherently one-sided because as soon as the initial hit lands, the other person doesn't get much of a say while they're getting juggled and stunlocked around. That doesn't need to be a bad thing, it makes it easy to reward people for landing hard-to-hit attacks other than just making it do 3-4k off the bat since the person has to follow up mechanically. It does break down as soon as stuff like extend rags jesus kicking into 3-4k like no one's business and while you can have that be "balanced", it's not particularly good design. I like the combo system in general for BB, you do a attack and in general you can go "oh this attack hits here and quickly enough to get them in time, I'll do that" which is much better and intuitive than no combos at all or dial-a-combos from games like UMK3, but I will admit I get bored watching characters like Litchi, Arakune or Unit Cookie Dough when they can just combo forever into death. Case in point, the big discussion where people would gladly have Haku's OD nerfed in return for more options.
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